Ladders - Garry plz :P

Table of contents:
paragraph 1-Why ladders need fixing
list 1-cons and pros of current ladders
paragraph 2-What we can do to fix them
list 2-cons and pros of new ladders

Hello, like you I am a fellow rust player. We all know that ladders have been made with the best of intentions, although they have come with the worst outcome of any update ever on rust. This has fixed rock bases, but it hasn’t just fixed them, it has destroyed all bases. Now, no matter where you live, rock, iceberg, or even the ground in a legit base, your base is going to be destroyed with three times less c4. You may have a legit base, and anybody can walk up to it, build up to the roof, and just blow their way down through your bases roof. Also, you might have a thick base that isn’t tall, although ladders also destroy this base. If you get to the roof of the building, you can get to the middle of the base, and use around 1/3 of the c4 to find the loot room, because you know that they didn’t put it on the most outer layer, and from the roof you get a nice view of that furnace light shining through. Next, we have iceberg bases, if you spend over an hour getting to an iceberg to build on, you deserve for your raiders to spend an hour and a half to get onto the iceberg. I say an hour and a half because they have to tower up and destroy the tool cupboard with rockets from a distance. Next, we have the rock bases, rock bases were easy to get onto, but at the same time, it took only twenty minutes to get onto the rock. So, in my opinion, if you are going to raid a rock base, save up some rockets, because if there is a rock base up for long enough, it usually has enough c4 or sulfur or another item to pay its weight in gold. Finally, there is the build up base, this base I %100 agree should be fixed, and ladders are a great way to do this! :smiley:
pros:
build ups - fixed
cons:
rock bases too easy to break in to.
iceberg bases too easy to break in to.
normal bases too easy to break in to
wide bases too easy to break in to.

The way that we can fix this is through foundations and roofs. You can make it so that foundations and roofs are the only thing you can place ladders on. This would make it so that you can raid build up bases, which keep in mind can still be made on rocks and icebergs! Also, this would make it so that you can raid any base, because rock and iceberg bases can still be raided, they just take a little more work. Also, since you can’t place them on the outside of a base, normal bases wouldn’t be too affected, but you could blow up a roof and build up from inside the first floor. Although, you could easily counter this by making your loot room on the highest floor, because the raiders would need to break the most floors that way.

Pros:
build ups - fixed
rock bases are normal to break in to
icebergs are normal to break in to
tower bases will still be hard to break in to
cons:
wide bases will be easily destroyed if you don’t have doors in every area on your loot floor. (because if your base isn’t tall then they can get to your highest level easily)
rocks area bit too hard to destroy since it takes so little time to get on to them. (unlike glaciers because you have to spend an hour or so to get on to the glacier to build on it)

Unfortunately, I can’t think of a way to fix wide bases and rock bases, other than making ladders build on rocks… although, wide bases would still be broken, but they are even more broken in the current update. ALSO, the reason I don’t think icebergs need to be lowered in difficulty to raid, as I have said before, is because it takes the builder so long to get on to the iceberg. So, if the builder spent so much time to get on to this iceberg, his raiders should have to spend just as much time. And, with this current update, no base is at all safe, which I understand in Rust they shouldn’t be, but on my favorite server, my glacier base was raided within a couple hours of me building it. Then, I build a hidden base in the mountains that was fairly tall, and that base was raided by building ladders to the top and destroying your way down. Next, I build a wide base in a lake, and that base was built in to the roof and destroyed from the inside out, which took much less c4. Although, I admit that I did some raiding myself, which is how I know that these ladders are so unfair. It may help you raid, but it also makes it so that by the time you get back to your base, it’s gone.

PS: Garry, if you are actually reading this, you might not like this exact idea, but still you could make an update like this.

yeah. ladders are fine

so are you just complaining ladders makes raiding easier?

ladders makes the game so easy mode… ladders just op
it was not that hard with out ladders. now its just a lolz
and for the new players groups starting out. poor guys haha

I am going to be perfectly clear : you do not need a table of contents for 3 paragraphs.

Use ur head and plan a base that is hard to raid from the roof… And even then ur base gonna be raidable - and thats great, no more fucking stairs destroying when u are going offline (that was pathethic era, and i hope its not going back). :]

Ladders works great and they don’t need any fix.

Btw. if u have 1 big loot room in the middle of ur base - its not really a good base design. :]

I understand that this is coming from someone who has been raided 3 times, but since the update i have raided 5 bases… I am complaining because the game isn’t fun any more. You can’t keep a base for more than a couple of days, and raiding isn’t fun anymore because you just build to the top! I understand that I can build more than one loot room on more than one floor, but the problem with that is that it might take me 10 - 15 minutes to get items out of all of those rooms to prepare to go outside safely! Although, this is an option, but with ladders, I would get raided in the same time that it takes me to get ready. Also, you still have to remember that furnaces burn light through the roof, which is where we have a lot of sulfur, usually enough to destroy most of the rest of the base. I understand that Rust needs to be more challenging, but making it so you can’t keep a base for more than a couple days unless you save up recourses for hours, and spend hours making the base, isn’t the way to make it more challenging. Maybe you could make walls harder to break, but not too much harder!

so i guess you never played legacy… this new generation of rust players, their thinking is that if they spend so much time and recources on their base then they deserve not to be raided… guess what, raiders also spend their time and recources on that c4 and much more than you on your walls… rock bases etc was exploits and it’s been fixed. deal with it. what needs to be done is reducing c4 aoe, so you cannot destroy 4 floors/walls with 3c4

bubahl i have a few questions. If I spend all of my time online getting recourses and storing it in my base, how do the raiders spend more recourses raiding my base than I have in my base? Secondly, rock bases were exploits? Why don’t they make it so that we can’t build on rocks and icebergs instead of making normal bases complete garbage. I did play legacy rust, probably for longer than you did, and so by saying this new generation of rust players thinking they shouldn’t be raided is false. I never said I was a new rust player, so insulting me because im a “new rust player” is just dumb if you don’t know that I’m a new rust player. Next, the reason I am making this post is so that all of the players that don’t like the ladders and I don’t have to deal with it. All that I am saying is that you could fix rock and iceberg bases %99 easier just by making it so that we can’t build on rocks and icebergs. This would mean that normal bases were just as hard to raid as any other base, the only difference would be design. Also, I like the c4 AOE because it is realistic, and it isn’t game breaking if you actually make your base in a specific way.

The reason that I want ladders removed isn’t because I am, as you would say, a dumb rust player who thinks that raiding shouldnt be allowed, but rather because it takes skill away from making bases. Every base used to have its weaknesses and strengths, but ladders take all of those away. Tall bases were useful because you could store your items higher up, so they had to build up to get to them. Wide bases were useful because you could store your items in a random location but still be deep enough in the base for furnace light not to be seen. Rock bases were useful because your enemies had to take longer to get on to them, although they would have to be very small in width because they were on a rock. Icebergs were nice because you could build a base that was gigantic, but still relatively safe. Although, icebergs did come with the cons of: having to get to the iceberg, having to always wear thick clothes or freeze to death, needing to be near a fire at night, and you couldn’t get back to your base easily or at night. Although, with new ladders, you can get to the higher floors of bases easily, find the loot rooms of wide bases based on furnace light, climb up rock bases,and climb up icebergs, thus taking not only skill, but diversity of play style away from the game.

FYI: bubahl next time that you want to brag about being an old player and how great old players are compared to new players… go on a server not on a forum where another old player is trying to help the game be more fun and at the same time balanced based on skill. Thank you

[editline]28th May 2015[/editline]

Yanglegend I also forgot to mention that I would like you to explain how my idea wouldn’t make ladders better? Instead of just saying, stairs are fixed so ladders don’t need to be fixed, please explain further. To me what I am hearing from you is, I hated stairs so if that is fixed, even if everything else is fucked, I don’t care.

i think ladder is fine, legacy is back

A smart guy make you house with a elevator, impossible to raid with C4.

The ladders balance this and now make sense use stairs

Ladders would be fine if you were raiding a base with the defends being online.

What we need is things to slow raiders down and more ways to hide loot.

Things like:
*Trap doors in “foundations” and “Blocks” that form a thin line when close enough
*Sliding doors with a switch that the builder can place anywhere on the wall/door
*Stashes like legacy that can store 2-3 items that only appear when you are close enough
*Triggers and stands,weapons or items can be placed on stands,triggers can be attached to objects
*Trap floors that look like normal floors but split in the middle when standing in the middle (the floor revers back to its pre-triggered form with the help of springs to trap more victims)

Claymores and mines,mines can be placed on the ground and have a 360 blast radius,claymores can be placed on walls or on the roof and have a 90* blast radius.

*Lastly,C4 should only affect the wall it’s placed on,also you should no longer be able to throw it since we have both rockets for hitting hard to reach places and ladders to get to other places to place C4.

Ladders shouldn’t be stackable. So u only can climb up one floor at a time, and the ladders also needs to stand on the ground/floor. So u can’t place them vertical at any walls. That are the only fixes I would made.

But secondly there is a defensiv wall missing. Like a normal Armored wall but with vertical, sidespikes which would be a Anti-Ladder wall. But it should also dealing a bit dmg to players, so the base-owner can’t spam those walls everywhere, because he would die pretty often than.

The recipe for that wall could be a Wall + Spikes (any Tier) and that would be a new Option in the Wallupgrade menu.

//EDIT

Or maybe Wood wall + starter spikes and Stone wall + Tier 2 spikes and Sheet metal + Tier 3 spikes (same for armored wall 'cause they are both out of Metal so it would fit perfectly)

Make ladders building blocked. That’s it. Game balanced. MAYBE put in a grappling hook that can snap under a lot of pressure, is weak, and can be shot and cut.

That would defeat the purpose,the were added to counter rock bases and elevator bases.

That is the biggest bullshit argument i have noticed in a while.

  • “They” spend more resources on C4 then on your walls? Really? Have you ever counted the resources need to make armored walls? C4 now does around 420 damage on a armored wall ( yes, the f*cking developers seems to have increased the damage again. Had several armored walls with 2 C4 blasted up to 160 health left. ). And with the blast range this ALWAYS happens:
  • First all 3 C4. This is in general a outer wall.
  • Second wall at best 2 C4…
  • Third wall they are probably already at 1 C4 …

I can freaking craft C4 faster and more automated then i can make armored walls. The amount of resources is simply more. The main argument that people keep bring up with C4 crafting is the time needed for the gun power especially. What you can stack up with a 1000 in query and just let your PC run while go to sleep or our out. You can come back you can mass produce explosives -> C4 …

And its even more easy when your in a clan with multiple players. I do this solo and i can tell you for a fact that the cost for any half descent base out ways the C4 costs:

  • Raiders lose some C4 but in return get any or all of your resources!
  • You need to replace each destroyed armored wall.
  • You need to repair each damaged armored wall ( that damage that goes 3 freaking blocks far! ). If they blast in from your roof, in a 5x5 you can have damage up to your foundations if they blast two floors! Its REALLY not fun repairing each and every wall and it sucks your dry in metal/stone/wood.
  • You have NO resources left after a raid anyway.
  • You need to regather resources to do those repairs.
  • You need to regather resources to restock any losses.

By the time you have done all that, you just wasted 4 to 6 hours working! And that only brings you back to your original point. Then you need more defenses because hey … raiders got in. They can take the exact same route next time. But as we know in Rust … add another layer = exponential cost increase for only maybe 1 or 2 extra C4 protection. While you spend maybe 50 or 60 armored units or more!! for that extra little bit protection.

  • Rock bases are not exploits.

Almost ALL rock bases you where able to scale the rock. It may have taken you some time in figuring out the weak spots but they where almost all jump able. The developers made changes to the rock generation almost two months ago, making it so that there are everywhere ridges on the rocks. Double jumping, moving round, more double jumping and you climbed those rocks.

Its just dumb people who keep complaining that rock bases are not raid able. The only really difficult to raid bases used to be the buildups ( and even then there are way round it: Jumping on furnaces, jumping on open doors ).

Now you got ladders. You got play collision = One play ducks, the second one jumps on him and they can jump floors now! People do not even need ladders anymore for one high walls!

Agree w/ OP in that ladders have drastically changed the game, and not for the better.

Was raided by ladders 3 times in 1 day, with the same base design I’d used 3 weeks prior with only 1 raid in 3 WEEKS.

The last time, I was offline for under an hour. They stacked ladders and scaled my 10-story armor tower, which had 3 levels of outcropped floors and signs which I thought (logically) might prevent the all-powerful superladder from being deployed. No such luck. Went in through the roof, where I had walled myself in (no stair access on the top floors; I cover up those points with floors before I log off, and then /remove when I log back on).

It’s kind of pointless to invest time in this game now that I know I can’t log off for more than a few mins before having to start over. Also, what’s the point of designing and implementing all of these base defenses if they’re totally useless?

Ladders need a nerf. They’re silly.

Its not just the ladders … With the collision you can now two person jump 1 height walls or floors.

And what base defenses do you mean? There are no base defenses beyond barricades and maybe bear traps but those are a joke. Step on one and your team mate revives you.

Walls are no defenses. They do not hurt the attackers. All the do is delay the attackers at best.

If you see in a raider there inventory, most of there inventory is focused on destruction. Rockets, C4. Now ladders for easy access. Gun and ammo. And a few medic packs at best. They do not even need a lot of medic packs anymore. When nobody is home they never get hurt ( or they are just dumb to run into a barricade without looking ). They C4 / Rocket barricades from a distance. Ladder, Double jump, breach or whatever and hello loot.

There is no balance. Its as simple as that.

The passive defenses you mentioned. I guess I’m kind of at a loss as to why they even exist, since they don’t do anything.

Like you said, you just catch people when they have logged off, spend 4 minutes to raid and loot, and repeat. It really reduces the game to such a boring, simplistic level of game play that really doesn’t seem to match the potential that it has.

Would it be so terrible if the raiders actually had to work for the loot a little bit? At least give us some way to build a base that might be able to thwart an attack once in a while? Ladders did the exact opposite - they made raiding EZ mode.

Not everyone plays in a “clan,” and not everyone raids incessantly. I am one who prefers to scavenge and build, and help out new players. There could be so much more depth to the game once the balance doesn’t solely favor the raiders.

Auto turrets should be added as a base defense + power source + ammo loaded into the auto turret to balance them.

Why don’t ladders just lean on the surface you place them against. You know, like an actual real ladder.

Its all you really need, that extra boost to get up on a rock or out of a room you fell in. Not this spiderman nonsense where they stick to any surface like superglue. Not sure why they made it that way, it feels like some cheesy server mod.