Limits in Source 2/S&box Hammer

Hi, I was wondering what the limits are like in S&box’s hammer compared to Gmod/Source 1 hammer.

On the maps I work on, the main bottlenecks are the vertexes limit and the actual area of the grid. How much bigger we will be able to create maps in terms of pure surface area when compared to Garry’s Mod?

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I think the grid size issue has not been fully addressed yet but is on the to-do list

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I have used Source 2 and I must say there are a lot less limits. And I can say you can make much bigger maps and the U.I has changed a little bit for it (a lot nice and cleaner)

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Correction, you can make more dense maps, and technically you can make maps that go outside the grid, that being said you cannot move past the grid. At least not in the HL:A version.

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Is the actual area of the grid in hammer 2 larger than the grid in hammer 1 though

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This guy asking the real questions, and if it, just by how much, twice? thrice? ten times?

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The Source 1 grid and the Source 2 grid are equally big.

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lets hope this gets changed in s&box. I assume the grid size wasn’t increased for HL Alyx hammer as there wasn’t any possibility they’d need it for any levels. There will be in S&box and I assume source 2 will be able to handle this.

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Source 1 Hammer had limitations that were not consistent with the actual ingame engine.
Hex/code editing was required to overcome these while mapping.

Source 2 Hammer has limitations that are much more consistent with the actual ingame engine.
Seems to be much more dev-friendly in this way.

From what Garry has said they both technically have the same byte-size(geometry) limitations, but he’s seriously considering expanding those limitations for waaay bigger maps, because he wants it to be a real fuckin’ game where you can DO all that AAA shit. Probably will happen if not at public release then in a post-release update.

(funi GIF here that will make u lmao and respec me)

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dont worry i got you, uhhh lets seee , uhhh i uhh, this will do i guess

but in all seriousness, i would like to see increased map size, i haven’t properly checked with this but i also wonder if there will be an increased entity limit compared to source 1, since i know that can be a big issue for maps in the past for gmod (although it might work different idk)

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@Grodbert @ubre don’t kill the messenger mate x.

On a more serious note: Garry has mentioned in the past that he wants to allow for Rust and PUBG-like game modes, and we all know those require big play areas, so I’m sure that it will be looked at sooner or later.

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I wouldn’t say for sure that we’ll get an alteration to map sizes.

Below I stitched together pieces of a recent conversation over on Discord. There were a couple other messages in between these, but none of them matter to the overall context here.
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I will point out that one person is not always representative of what the whole team at FP is thinking, just so I’m not putting words in anyone else’s mouth in regards to this topic. But it is still worth considering what has been said here nonetheless.

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Huh, I kinda understand what Layla is saying, there was a good airship combat gamemode that, to give the illusion of having a huge sky map (and to not have players fall off of their ships) would move the entire (generated) world around your airship to make it look like you’re travelling.

Although that’s just a special case, it’s kinda ridiculous that source 2 doesn’t have any increase in map size compared to source 1, which is more than a decade older, and I don’t think any “There’s no need” or “you can work around it” can satisfy the expectation of huge maps, that’s one of the things people are looking forward the most.

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Agreed.

It may take a metric asston of nerding to make a detailed map that is held back by engine limits, but there are a number of great examples of this on the GMod workshop already and they are largely celebrated.

If you don’t need to then you don’t have to, but clearly there’s at least an already established niche for ludicrously big maps. And Garry himself is already speaking about wanting fuckhuge games like Rust in S&box.

We’ll make due without it so I wouldn’t want the devs to twist their nips into a big sexy pretzel, but it’s not unwarranted to ask for if it’s reasonably possible and within scope.

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Yeah in source things like that were so janky and not seamless at all. So hopefully we are able to do more stable teleports and spawning in source 2.

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