Monthly Server Updates? Or 2 weekly at least.

Hey guys and Garry, As a fairly new server host and also player, it has come to the attention that having such frequent updates is loosing myself quality playing time and also loosing members and players on my server which i pay good money for, i understand this game is an alpha, but could it be prudent to do updates less frequently to make sure you have enough time to test and review them before releasing them to serverhosts and forcing clients to update through steam, at the moment the game is sound for 95% of my players and members and they would like it to be left as is until something decent happens that they will notice, ie updates haven’t been polished well over the last few months, ie the connection issues one was a biggy and essentially cost me 2-3 weeks before my server got it popularity back, which then a new update was released meaning a wipe which then ment players got annoyed and left, I believe even in alpha and update shouldn’t actually make a game run worse for people, so this was really bad for alot of people, updates that dont require a wipe would be ok but its the ones like the last few weeks haven’t shown alot of difference for my players and are now having big breaks on the game due to the frequency and the fact that updates have been causing more issues than what they had to begin with, i hope i haven’t repeated myself or sounded like an ass, but it would be great for myself as a paying host to know that the server wont get wiped every 1-2 weeks. I know other hosts also feel the same, and i think it would mean less rush for your update team being youd now have a month to really knuckle down ,plan and test good quality updates to ultimately not push people away and to also allow servers to keep running well.

Or alternitavely just allow clients to play an updated version\ or non updated version for those hosts who decide they dont wont to update straight away for various reasons,
So youd have an option, ie
-Play rust Update(datestamp)
-Play rust non update(lastupdatestamp)
-Play rust legacy

-The ability to see the favorite servers latest update so they know if they can join or not.
opinions and ideas appreciated and loving the work thats been done, but im just seeing far to many people leaving and not just on my server. think of the quality work that can be achieved if not having to rush each week.
thanks guys oRcim

Maybe the reputation of the server isn’t that great if the players don’t come back or they simply just don’t like the state of the game when a new update comes so they just wait for a while and well … they always come back to Rust. In Legacy on populated servers wipes were happening almost always once per week because the server was lagging if not and many had their game freezing for some time because of the building clutter . I see your point but I have to disagree, it’s an alpha so we test the game first of all. What you could do is keep the blueprints researched for your players after the wipe so at least they have that if they really want it so badly.

You can just not update the server and tell your players to not update their client, then you can stay on the same version for a month or two. But if anyone updates they’re not going back down.

It’s not optimal, but this is alpha, if your players can’t deal with that fact they’re playing in the wrong time period and should come back in 8 months. Wipes are a fact of life.

Ok i think you’re all missing the point, maybe due to bad wording, as i have stated why release an update if it doesn’t improve the game, ie the previous updates mentioned have actually cause more issues than good, and also this latest update on friday has also caused connection issues causing players to not even be able to join at all, so why release updates that actually are worse than the current game state, yes the game is alpha and most people do understand that, this post isnt 100% about the wipes its also about the fact that updates are actually making the game go back in some ways and reducing playtime. Server rep was good, we are competing with servers that hold in excess of 150 players though which doesn’t help, in you’re response that " we do test the game" i cant see how a thorough test and evaluation has been done if there are so many issues that well as previous cause at least from 2 days- a week of solid connection issues for players globally, that doesn’t seem “tested” i personally couldn’t play without crashing for 4 days until the new patch fixed everything up, ive played a few alphas and generally the updates do not cause worse game play and un-stability than the previous versions, Unless you’re reffering to Us’ as a player that tests the game, yes we do test it but they also run updates on the dev servers prior to release from my knowledge yet so many people have issues so run the tests for longer to really nut out bugs?
This server is hosted by a company and most updates are forced by steam, also telling bulk players to not update isnt going to really help, also even when i had auto downloads off on steam it wouldn’t let me play rust without updating so not sure how thatd work.My players and randoms that join, don’t care 100% for the wipes but are hating the issues that come with updates that are ment to fix things.
Just another question i was under the impression that updates where on Mondays now? in Australia the latest update was on friday?

If you want to play Rust without disruptive changes there’s always legacy. This is Early Access and I feel that your expectations and the expectations of your players are actually too high.

Also, updates have been moved to Thursdays, because updates on Mondays were completely killing servers on weekends because people were going “what’s the point, it’s all getting wiped Monday”.

As usual, the community can’t decide what it wants.

The updates are good and wanted, but a little refinement in the way updates are sent out could really help servers and keep players happier at the same time, you keep saying its an alpha and yes it is, so isnt it just as fair for me to ask for some improvement in the update area, just this last 2 weeks alone ive had 17 players that play rust from my own and other servers that im friends with all leave due to bad updates might not seem like alot but that is still a group of people that have now turned to reign of kings dayz and other rustlike games. my players love the fact the game changes and generally improves but the issue remains that they are also seeing huge issues coming out of untested updates, and update should always improve the game quality and play-ability, not make it worse than the previous version, my expectations are none as personally i dont expect anything i do get annoyed but i deal with it, but its what im seeing people running off and not coming back due to things being worse than originally, half the time its not even about the wipes its just the updates.Some refinement would be good and sticking to a timetable and not changing it would be great too. also legacy is crap, thats why i play experimental… my expectations are not high, im simply trying to voice that i think there could be changes made to benefit updater and players as one. i will continue to play rust myself as im paying for a server but for others well its a different story.

this kind of thing is actually why they debated only having the official servers and not releasing the server files.

this is the nature of the beast; updates tend to break things as well as add new/fixed content. people tend to get frustrated either because they haven’t had enough updates or because the updates interrupt them playing. they need to adjust their expectations, and so do you; the game is being actively developed and regular wipes are guaranteed, it is not perfect conditions for having a server.

also, you need to remember FP never asked you to make a server, you made it because you wanted a rust server of your own. They just made it available to you, they have no obligation or really any reason to change their development structure to suit you. You need to weigh up whether or not it’s something you want; i’m sorry to hear that your population stop playing when the game breaks, but that’s the same with the entire rust population.

hey thats all good, im simply relaying alot of peoples thoughts, and even though its alpha youd still expect some form of refinement as you’re still paying for it though, i love hosting a server i just think why not extend the wipe* updates and do a big one instead of every week, they can still do the exact same stuff but really nut it out and then less rework is required and also it will reduce people being upset even though its a alpha, IMO just because somethings alpha it doesn’t mean you cant work on making things run smoother and better for a general consensus and community, i just cant seem to see any negatives from slightly extending the wipe update period id understand and be cool if it was a significant update ie rad towns or something that people can notice but for smaller things that dont crazily change the game ie sounds and textures i reckon a delay would be much better and it means that the devs dont have to rush either and can really tweak an optimize the game and new updates being released. We need the updates and we need new content, but having a solid timetable that works well with the players and devs more happily would be great IMO

so like normal minor updates that dont wipe can keep going as usual and give the option to run updated or non updated(incase servers havent updated straight away), but wipe updates are between 2 and 4 weekly intervals like this week the update didnt wipe and that was awsome for our server, so im just saying if there was an update say next friday id be happy with that as its actually kept the players happier and alowed us time to warn people, sometimes even when reading the update notes and stuff it would be nice to know if the updates will 100% force wipes so be good to be a pre update warning (unless there is somewhere already please let me know)

anywho thats about it i think oRcim

[editline]15th March 2015[/editline]

In regards to FP never asked us to make a server, no they didnt and had i not had my own server id still be posting the same thing about the official servers. They dont have to change anything, but seeing as they have been pretty good at listening to the consumer im sure i have the right to voice how myself and many others feel, as a good company it should deffs be taken on board, it doesn’t have to be used but defs taken on board, if i was a company and i had the ability to keep consumers happy whilst still making things work then id do it, i wouldnt simply say the games an alpha and not change a thing because its an alpha, this post is to simple ask garry and the devs if the possibility is available to slightly vary the update system to benefit consumers and quite possibly the devs themselves, that is all and i think i have a very valid post here and just because the game is in alpha state it doesnt mean it should be pushed under the rug. I have talked to some of the bigger hosts in aus and many agree also. a little compromising and working with the public to make a good system isnt hard and it will encourage more growth in sales and community alike. Im still yet to be told a negative, everyone is just saying get used to it wich i have been, im simply putting forward a question to the devs and seeing if there are options out there.
thanks again oRcim (spelling is terrible lol)

i guess my response to you saying you would post even just as a player is that as official servers, the devs would have every right to use them as they wish, including to roll out updates requiring wipes. yeah it might disrupt service for players, but it isn’t a completed game and can’t be viewed the same way as something finished. by delaying updates (specifically those that require wipes, which are likely to be pretty foundational changes and not just texture changes etc) we delay the game being completed, and push the time where these kind of wipes are rare further into the future. it’s not in their or our best interests to treat this as anything but an incomplete project.

it’s good to have feedback, and i’m sure they will appreciate the information. but you paid a one off price for the game as a player/tester, not as a server host. (if you are paying someone else for a server, it still has nothing to do with FP since they get no money from it;)) so far though, the team have changed the day a few times to suit the server hosts, so they aren’t ignorant to your plight; you guys just need to realize that these servers are your responsibility, not FPs. The server files have been given on the grounds that you understand there will be changes, delays, breakdowns to the game that require updates, wipes and tolerance.

Ok you’re completely missing my point, im saying delay the times for the updates not stop the updates, meaning the same updates get applied as per normal but at different intervals and much more polished once it was running for a while the update process would practically work the same as current but with the ability to give users an extra week or so before being forced into it, yes the devs have every right to use them as they want omg, im not saying that, im simply asking them if they could come to some sort of option to still allow all of the updates but in a bigger bundle as apposed to small little ones, now if you read my posts its states that needed updates ones that require wipes are ok, but alot of the latest ones are for such small things yet cause downtime, the game isnt finished and wont be for a long time, the reduction of rework will actually speed up the games progress, ie this weekend they are having to fix multiple issues, meaning less time spent on other things, if updates are of substantial requirement then that would be fine,

IE
2 weeks without wipes- updates polished and tested well, can still do the same amount of updates as you would with 2x1 weekly wipes, but also gives the players extra time to enjoy the new updates and youd also get more feedback once people have played it reducing rework meaning actually quicker progress.
weekly wipes - what has been rushed as of late and buggy, reduces players time to test and enjoy the new updates, as of late has required rework days after updates, less time for feedback before a new update is released, meaning possible overlap and alot more possibility for rework load meaning slowing down the game progression.

If all update where adequately polished i wouldn’t care about wipes, but they aren’t, you see changelogs and get excited then for some reason you cant join a server for 4 days, (even right now players are having connections issues on various servers including my own)
all im saying is to bundle 2 weeks worth of updates and release together as one on the second week as apposed to releasing a singular update once a week, (unless its crucial to gameplay like connection etc) you still get the same updates, yet you get more playtime without issues and wipes etc. so nothing changes except bundling the updates into one, 4 weeks is probably too much now i think of it but 2 weeks wouldn’t be to bad at all, normal updates like small non wipe updates can still occur as normal.

[editline]15th March 2015[/editline]

its understood that there are issues breaks etc and thats normal with anything in life, but working together to make this game and community the best it could be is something id like to achieve, if you can keep players happy whilst maintain upgrade integrity why not

The point is to give the DEV’S more time for a major update and to make sure it works the first time insted of these small updates rushed through and making the game worse with bugs and wipes.I agree with orcim comments.Also yes the game is in alpha and we are all testers Mrknifey its not delaying updates its making more time to get like major changes or fixes correct without causing issue for servers or players.As to the servers you are promoting the game and FP so it does matter but its not their concern if the server breaks down.People want to see a game that works and dosent have to get wiped 1-2 weeks all the time and connection issues anyhow dinner time so iam all for monthly updates.

i understand you are convinced on your point; it doesn’t mean i don’t understand what you are meaning.

let me try to make my point this way:

you are building a house. stage 1, you lay a concrete foundation down, and let it set. stage 2 you come back, check that it has set properly, and start laying brickwork. stage 3 you check that the brickwork is fine and start putting up the frame of the roof.

if you delay stage 1, stage 2 cannot progress at the same rate. sure, you can get the bricks near the house, and ready for stage 1 to be finished, but you have to wait for the previous stage to be in place and correct to move to the next stage.

you are suggesting waiting 14-28 days before applying “stage 1” to the game so people can live in the house, without appreciating that delaying stage 1 will prevent them working on stage 2 properly, and extend how long it will be until we can all live in the house. Garry and the team gave you keys to the house, but it doesn’t mean they need to stop/slow construction so you can live in it before it’s finished.

most if not all of the updates that require a wipe ARE those crucial elements. the other thing is that we are basically 2,000,000 playtesters who have bought access to the development process, so we need time to break everything so they can fix it in the next update.

Again i said crucial wipes, but ok, also as i stated once the updates are rolling it in a sense wouldnt be behind at all. And with less rework then youd be making more progress,

what is a concrete foundation if its full of cracks, whats a wall if it has holes, i could agree with you on the topic of step by step, but this isnt the direction they have been taking, IMO they are all over the place in updates, stop changing gun sounds that worked, stop messing with building systems(destroy etc) get the foundations of the game running well (graphics optimization etc) new content as apposed to changing things that work already, i know people cared less about wipes if a cool gun came out or a new jacket or whatnot, players arent seeing crazy new things for the amount of wipes done, so they feel no reward for hanging around, why implement skin tones if the game is not working correctly, why implement the tones if you cant firstly change them to suit the players persona, now there are issues with racism etc so rework is required in some sense to fix issues, this is just examples, wipes are fine but dont wipe if things arent gonna work after, updates are ment to improve and fix elements not make them worse, and if they are test updates do not release them to the public\ servers and players alike until they are ready, if i had my way i wouldnt update my server as frequently, but i have to as players are forced to update the game through steam without choice so i have to update otherwise my server is invisible, so in saying that as i have said above over and over a system to choose an updated or not updated version could solve everyone’s issues, giving the user the ability to be able to jump between updated and non updated servers depending on whether there home server has updated or not.
-so in the rust box when it comes up, have version with previous update date
-then another with the updated version
-Then legacy

Im not convinced on a point i have yet to be given a really good reason as to why these things couldnt be improved or implemented, the updates lately seem to be fixing the same things,
-less rework needed
-polish updates
-dont rush
-allow players to choose the version they run through the steam launcher or ingame. if servers dont have to wipe until they choose to update but can still have players joining thanks to being able to choose the version, that will solve issues.

well, i don’t think i could word it more clearly. good luck.

I understand what you’re saying but the same principal applies being, the steps if you release an update then have to rework that is essentially having to cut that concrete foundation you’ve just put down and putting the form work down again and fixing the issues, meaning step 2 would now be delayed, see the predicament, if updates were perfect thered be less complaints, but they just haven’t been, so bundling updates and having a few more hours to test them on the dev servers prior to a public release could really help improve the game and have less rework affect for the devs, meaning increased game progression(closer to finish product) and also player enjoyment. i wouldn’t be posting this had i thought that the devs couldn’t do something like this and that it would actually make the game progress better.

also you state :most if not all of the updates that require a wipe ARE those crucial elements. the other thing is that we are basically 2,000,000 play testers who have bought access to the development process, so we need time to break everything so they can fix it in the next update.
So wouldn’t a extended update period really help this as the updates would be tested for much longer?

anywho im pretty much done with my point, we both have valid points i just see mine has more options and would honestly need dev input for me to agree or disagree, personally i and many others feel that this wont affect anything except for the fact players get better access to the game, being they choose the launcher version chooser option or just bundle the updates into one tested unit.
anywho im tired if talking for now lol
oRcim

Your expectations are simply too high for a game in alpha.

Also, there is no reason to sign your posts. Everything you’ll ever post here has your name immediately to the left. We know who you are, there’s no need to put it in your post.

I think you are completely missing the point of early access. You are being very selfish in your request.

There is a symbiotic relationship in early access. Your concerns are of continuity, but the developers need testers. You mention they should “test good quality updates”. Well, we are the testers, buddy. If they hold off on releasing the new features, who will test them? How will they get feedback?

Holding off on releases will hinder their ability to react. What happens if a game breaking bug is introduced? Currently they are able to react and patch it. They are able to immediately see what is effecting what. Under your month long release schedule, it becomes less obvious what caused the bug, because there is more code to check. So now more time is needed to fix bugs, leaving servers down for longer.

utilitron you have given a good explanation, i did realise 4 weeks was abit to much,
im over this now anywho, a simple idea has lead to spite and nitpicking, im not being selfish i was just putting an idea out that i thought could work and no one adequately made me understand why it couldn’t work, it just seemed like everyone is just saying oh well its alpha, oh and even had we stuck to the weekly wipes no one seemed to comment on being able to join both types of servers and having the option to play updated and non updated like many other games out there, many games allow you to see the servers in one version but not join it due to version difference, so at least being able to see this in menus and revert to updated or non updated mode could solve most issues or allow hosts to not update for a while whilst still having users.
anywho im done

mods feel free to delete this post as its loopdy loop and going nowhere.