Paid addons

That sounds dumb. Why would the actual player care about wether the server uses paid addons or only free ones. What’s the point of all of this?

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I didn’t get that part as well, are they talking about servers that make you pay for stuff like tools and prop count or are they talking about servers that use one of the 1,000 paid weed growing addons?
Either way, none of that affects how popular a server is, I’ve seen money hungry servers with endless content packs that top the charts for months.
90% of the people donating are kids who don’t even know what Facepunch is, the other 10% are people that don’t care and spend 8 hours a day playing gmod.

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I think in that case a “This server contains micro-transactions” flag would do the trick?
But then again. What exactly is a micro-transaction and do donations for the server also count as micro-transactions?

Literally every server has “micro transactions” if you count ‘donations’ as them

Anyway, that’s got nothing to do with supporting paid addons

Looks like the thread got derailed, but still it’s an interesting topic.
Garry said we won’t receive a server list but we still need to have some place that groups up all known servers.
We could have it so you can rate the server after 1 hour of playing and it displays stars near the name on the list, maybe even a review, everything would be done by the community.
Problem is that the system could get abused for 5 Stars by the servers unless it were to be done anonymously. “RATE 5 STARS TO GET $5000”

When did garry say we won’t receive a server list? :thinking:

If you’re about that, he just was sarcastic about all the pain in the ass to be solved about a server list.

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Thanks god, that would make it easier to implement my idea for a star rating system after 1 hour of play.

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If you are talking something like the gmodstore then it will be done on its own. If you are talking about official way to buy paid addons i really hope it does not happen, it wont stomach well specially for gmod players, imagine having 70% of addons on the workshop cost money. Whats the point of buying s&box over gmod for the average player then?

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And what is the difference between gmodstore and an official store apart from the commission going to the game devs instead of a 3rd party?

Also remember that this is not gmod2, nor do they want to make gmod2, they are aiming creating a platform for developers to make games.

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Every “official” paid mods implementation that a big game has attempted in the recent past has been a huge failure, the differences I can see between those situations and Sandbox’s case is that:

  • The game’s focus wasn’t modding/addons, although mods were somewhat popular
  • The game was developed by a comparatively larger company

So since more attention would be given to such a system in this case, and there would be less people to handle the possible curation or moderation of the system, as well as other concerns that might arise. I think the chances are slim that something like this could have a good outcome to the game.

Undoubtedly if FP doesn’t set a system in place for this, someone else will. But I think this will lead to a more messy, but less harmful conclusion when it comes to the community as a whole (not only developers) because whatever controversy comes out of said 3rd party system will not be associated with facepunch directly. There are nuances like how big of a cut FP takes, the (completely reasonable) expectation that would arise for a system to prevent paid content from being used without paying, if payments for client content (instead of server content) would be allowed, refunds, how curation (if any) would take place. Every single one of these is a big ass can of worms with infinite potential to burn yourself in the eyes of different sections of the community, and I don’t think FP has the man power to tackle some of them, let alone do it well enough as to not to cause problems.

For a 3rd party system, on the other hand, the expectations are MUCH lower, FP can just not condone using such systems and let them handle it themselves.

The bottom line in my opinion is: I think this is something much more difficult to pull off 1st party than people think and them attempting it and failing is going to cause much more harm than just letting the community create something a little more scuffed by themselves. At the very least, if FP does think they can pull it off (and they are certainly more qualified than me to make that assessment), I think they should limit it COMPLETELY to server content! No in-game player wallet, no possibility to pay for client-side content, no micro-transactions, limit it to a system between server owners and Facepunch.

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Having read the entire thread i whole heatedly believe that a third party system or systems (competitors) will work better than a facepunch paid mods system.

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This thread turned out to be fairly controversial. All that can be clearly said is: As long as the paid mods scene remains something similar to bonus content for server owners rather than constant, never-ending microtransactions for the player, then there’s nothing to worry about.

With microtransactions I am not talking about servers offering donator-exclusive benefits. If that’s a problem for you, then just don’t play on those servers. What I mean is a huge amount of addons, even the fun sandbox ones you install for singleplayer, being paid, due to official support making monetization ridiculously easy. This would force players to constantly pay for things just so they can enjoy the game for what it is. That’s the one thing that could put players off the game, and should not happen.
But honestly, that is very unlikely to happen. If you put a price on an addon that doesn’t deserve one, people will immediately just steal it and redistribute it for free. There’s nothing you could do to stop this, unless you were to go batshit insane with trying to implement DRM crap, and who in their right mind would bother with this? That’s why free addons exist, because people know that charging for it is simply not worth it.

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I agree. Monetization should be mostly reserved for server addons and server-specific features.

Even then, actually allowing monetization on servers through some kind of mediated system brings in a whole lot of problems at the legal side of things. This shit flies under the radar in GMod because its all extremely individual and happens on a case-by-case basis, and each individual server is too small a fly to really bother with.

But, considering the not-so-recent controversies involving in-game monetization, and, especially, lootboxes, it’s not far-fetched to imagine that FP (or whichever other party wants to streamline monetization for servers) could get into trouble for enabling predatory anti-consumer practices.

I’d rather prefer that monetization is kept for developers of server addons and/or gamemodes.

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Again a third party system or multiple third party systems would work best for the case. It auto moderates itself, is not vulnerable to liability against the whole game, and worked fairly well in gmod.

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A game with possibilities such as S&Box will not get the attention it needs from people who just want to make things for free out of the kindness of their heart (although TONS of people did that for Gmod and made amazing things) compared to the people who know they can make good money since there are way less limits with sbox. Being paid to do something often (in the mind of people who care) makes them make things more polished as well as feel more inclined to update said things.

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Same arguments as people who wanted paid mods for skyrim. It’s not a good idea to have a first party paid mods system.

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I’m talking about third party, not first party. That will end up like Skyrim’s market.

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I totally agree with Radek.

I would hate to see this become the new “Skyrim Paid Workshop” thing. I would love a way to support an Addon that is super cool and unique, but i would hate to see the “Sandbox workshop” be bombarded with shitty ass addons and scams. Just imagine paying 5 bucks for a map and for it to be broken in the next patch and for the development of the map to stop right there and not be updated for the later patch.

There is alot of things to consider about this topic, what could go wrong and what could go right.

Btw sorry if there is any grammar mistakes since english is not my native language.

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In this thread: People bitching about first-party paid stores.
The very same people: Are okay with CS-GO skins being workshop submissions to be voted on by the community, curated by Valve, and finally re-sold in a form of a case gamble. Potentially having to spend thousands to get the skin you want. (Skin creators do get paid a share) I know this thread is about mods, not skins, but it’s a much more scummy system that people are supposedly okay with.

Meanwhile paid addons are targeted at server owners, not individual players - Server owners invest in their server, buying new addons and enhancing their players experience, which in turn nets them more money in “Donator” and “VIP” ranks. Server owners made money for tens of years on the players, so why can’t modders tap into that potential? Not like we make remotely the same amount of money selling our mods for 15$ a copy, compared to scamming kids for 30 samish dark-rp jobs, every month, month after another.

Regarding skins, Rust skin store is CSGO skins done right. When the popular skins are approved by the FP, they land on their first-party, steam store where they’re available for purchase for a few weeks. After that, the skin is regulated by the community marketplace as it is not available to be purchased from FP store anymore. Those skins are also available in random skin drops as you play the game, sometimes, AFAIK.

This way you pay only for the skin you want, and not only for like, 500 skin cases and 500 keys just to get what you want. No gamble.

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I am not completely familiar with how Rust’s store work, but from what you described it seems like a good system for all parties involved. However, curating and approving addons is a much more open ended endeavor than doing the same to skins, it
requires more work and time, and very different risks. Also people would be woefully unsatisfied with a round of new addons at the store every few weeks.
All in all, I don’t think this is a fair comparison and it doesn’t provide a lot of insight into how a first-party addon market may work and be successful.

Edit:

I also haven’t seen anybody here mentioning they are okay with that, I for one do not like lootboxes at all. But why are you measuring how scummy of a system people are “okay” with? Doesn’t seem like a good way about looking at things.

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