Question/opinion about gender changes

Disclaimer: I love these changes, I don’t care about playing as a female (or male for that matter) at all as it doesn’t change gameplay at all and I think it’s simply an interesting change that in my experience no other game has.

But…

I feel this is kinda wrong as the main issue for most people is that they’re playing as a gender that they’re not used to having and that is what upsets them.
I mean, I can get why people might be uncomfortable with playing a gender they’re not used to even though I think people’s rants about quitting the game are kind of ridiculous.
Anyway, you can’t just claim half the population is living with gender-issues and not giving a source, I for one couldn’t find one supporting this.
Just saying… probably just nitpicking, I know… and I agree that people shouldn’t care this much and suck it up; it’s just a game, it doesn’t change much for your experience in the game.

But now to my point, in real life you can these days change your gender artificially if you feel like you’re obviously a male in a female body and the other way around.
This can be done by changing physical body features as well as using hormones to alter your body towards more female/male.
Shouldn’t this then also be possible in the game if realism is really what they’re going for? What’s the added value of this aspect though?
What is the rationale for not giving people a choice at all and no customization? I think I’m missing this part which might explain my confusion.

“Realism” is not the driving force behind the decision.

The rationale is,

Source: Garry, last July

I can’t find the devblog where he says this, but TL;DR version character customization is a big waste of time, in garry’s eyes – if you spend 30 minutes customizing your character in Skyrim, that’s 30 minutes where zero is happening except you moving sliders to change the size of your character’s cheekbones and shit. garry wants people to click connect on a new server and then just be in and on their way to either surviving or getting shot by a KOS’er, without tons of frontloaded slider bullshit.

Sure, other games give you lots of character customization, but you can play other games, and garry is developing Rust, not some other game. To quote a post of mine from last June about this same damn topic,

Thanks for posting, I disagree with Garry about customization being a big waste of time but I don’t mind disagreeing and I can see how he feels there’s no place for it in Rust and again, I don’t really care too much.

Yeah… getting kinda tired of you and others saying similar things to this whenever someone constructively questions/criticizes/discusses Rust features that are or are not in the game or that Garry/Helk don’t agree on. And obviously not many people would want customization to go as far as where you get f’d up characters like in ARK but that’s more a case of bad slider boundaries than bad concept imo.

I don’t think that’s what garry means, based on me only reading that quote you provided.

It doesn’t sound like he’s making deep societal commentary on gender dysphoria.

More like saying that updates to the character appearance-by-steamID algorithm has randomized parts of physical appearance yet again, and that statistically half of Rust players will have a sex they don’t personally identify with IRL; by changing the algorithm again and upsetting a new group of players who have been swapped to the opposite sex he is saying it’s an unimportant concern since half of his players were already complaining of this.

I don’t Care for the male for female. But the female could use some more work done. Does not look

Well ive specifically joined the forum to state that after 1000 hours of rust i will be not be playing until i get to choose my gender.

i don’t think you will be missed
suit yourself

Stop being a cry baby. Really??

Thing is, while you’re trying to use Ark’s ridiculous customization boundaries as an example of what can easily be avoided, you’re forgetting that what we are currently stuck with is this:

this is akin to being offended if your character skin is black

People don’t have to be offended simply because they’d like to choose how they look. The excuse about a demographic too young to purchase the game themselves being in adult characters is as weak as the excuse that 10 minutes at the loading screen is going to affect our gameplay.

I think the dev’s are quite aware that most people are simply asking for the option to choose gender, which in mind, ought not be a huge issue to implement. For a developer like facepunch, I would have though relatively easy to achieve. I guess not.

It’s easy to implement but that doesn’t mean they’re interested in adding it to their design. This is a deliberate choice the devs have made, and while you’re certainly welcome to disagree with it and have your feedback be heard you should give the devs enough credit to expect that they could add a menu button to change your character’s gender if they wanted to.

It’d be easy to implement 16x sniper scopes but that doesn’t make 2km-away sniper kills appropriate for Rust. It’d be fairly easy to implement automatic object ownership and offline indestructibility to prevent offline raiding and make houses safer and more convenient, but that doesn’t mean Rust should have those features.

Please explain why Rust’s game design has to change in order to incorporate player-controlled character customization, and please use an answer that is not “because I want it” worded differently. Please justify why the devs should spend additional dev time rigging up new menus – the amount of time it would take is immaterial, the change itself is what I’m asking you to justify. This is not a trick question, I would legitimately like to hear some justifications beyond the assumption that you should have an inherent right to customize your avatar.

Disclaimer: I am not a Rust dev or a forum moderator and I have precisely zero power over the dev team. If you come up with a very solid justifiable reason for character creation options, and I agree with you, this still doesn’t mean the Rust devs will do it.

I’m fine with it. I can’t shake the feeling that a good portion of people who are against it were planing to amass “gifts” obtained as a female, then change back to male and use what they got. It also amuses me that a good portion of the people who previously were going as far as claiming Rust was doing poorly without a female player now hate the idea because they can’t switch at will.

Well, we could start with the fact that even the slightest difference in the surface meshes still effects getting hit. If players are going to have different experiences based on their characters, then those experiences should be under the control of the players.

Then we can move onto familiarity. Most anti-customization arguers like to point out that we don’t even get to see our own character. Well if that was the case, then we have no way of telling people who to look for when trying to meet up with them. Being able to control how we look, even once, will enable for us to effectively communicate to other players who we are. Are there other ways to go about this? Maybe, but none that would be so simple and guaranteed as giving the other person a description of what you look like without wearing the same armor everyone else has access to.

The comparisons you’re making, with the sniper scopes and offline indestructibility, those would have huge impacts on the game in their own ways, but they would effect every player equally. Character randomization is the opposite. It guarantees that even though everyone paid the same amount for this game, no one is going to have the same experience. And that is something I believe we should have control over.

Why does anyone care what their avatar looks like!? You can’t see yourself. Its a survival game (well supposedly, but thats another argument!), and I love the tastefully proportioned male and female models

There’s something to be said for making sure that the different meshes have similar enough hitboxes to not be randomly rewarded with a significant competitive advantage by having a particularly short character. No argument there. That’s a balance issue the devs can sort out as they get a solid handle on the character customization system’s ‘final’ shape, so it’s not an immediate priority right yet (at least in my opinion).

As for familiarity, that sounds like wanting an easy solution handed to you as if that’s a higher priority than the devs’ own design decisions. And while I don’t intend for that to sound condescending or patronizing, there’s not really any other way of phrasing it succinctly without reaching to that kind of language. Rust is about presenting you with challenges and then giving you the tools to solve them. You have voice chat in-game. If you’re in out-of-game voice you can coordinate more stealthily. You can wear clothing and then describe it, which oddly enough tends to be the typical way police/other identification interviews and descriptions are handled (“police are looking for a (age) (race) (gender) in (clothing) and a (clothing)”). How many short naked asian females jumping up and down while standing on a rock in a field could there possibly be at once on a Rust server?

I mean, yeah, your feedback is valid and you have a point in requesting a simple solution; but I circle back to “doesn’t mean Rust is like that”. Objects don’t have ownership because Rust isn’t like that. Headshots against properly-armoured players are not guaranteed one-hit kills because Rust isn’t like that. Doors in vanilla Rust can only be secured with physical keys or four-digit keycode locks because Rust. I know you know what I’m getting at, whether or not you agree with it.

Also, I put it to you that if character customization was a free ball, fuck it let’s give everyone Skyrim customization and stop arguing once and for all, the typical US server would be 60%+ exclusively white guys with the largest 2-3 levels of dick size. There would be clans where everyone looks identical. And, sooner or later, Rust would show up in a white supremacist propaganda video on Stormfront of, say, a bunch of maximum-height maximum-buff blond blue-eyed aryan beefcakes pushing skinny emaciated black-skinned players into fires and off high walls and performing mock executions. Sure, they could do this now (and I have to assume that there’s some form of stupid pro-nazi shit, both serious and just-for-trolling, made with Rust on YouTube already if you go looking for it) but only if they wanted to buy enough copies of Rust to get enough “acceptable” Steam IDs for their machinema – and even white supremacist idiots know that there are much more efficient ways to generate hate speech stock footage than spending hours buying a few dozen copies of Rust and making new Steam accounts for each one. (Especially since this would mean supporting garry, a [del]race traitor[/del]game project lead who decides to randomly “inflict” being a black character on players. But I’m getting way off track here.)

Yes exactly, I’m sure it would be relatively easy to implement, so the only reason I can imagine not to implement it, is purely out of choice.

I chose to play Rust back in 2013 when it had a male character model. If a female character model had been the only choice, I would not have chosen to buy Rust.

Now, I am well aware that Garry is perfectly within his rights to choose to autocratically decide that I ought not have the choice to choose my character model, but when I’m also equally aware that implementing such a feature is not a difficult task, but instead a task chosen not to be undertaken, then it will invariably leave a sour taste in my move in regard to facepunch.

It’s also my choice not play Rust games until choosing character models become a feature, if ever. I simply want the ability to choose my gender, that’s all, no big deal.

I’ve said in the thread that I disagree with customization being a waste of time but haven’t shared why so since you ask:

I think it’s an added value to the player experience when people get to customize their own player. The reason is because when you’re customizing your character you grow a little more attached to it usually. Furthermore, I’m not a roleplayer myself but I can imagine people seeing a lot of added value here where it would be easier to roleplay if you could modify your appearances, therefore adding to the player experience of that kind of player.

Again, I can see how it’s not a priority for the devs but I wouldn’t agree with them on the feature being useless. It doesn’t really make sense either when so many games do it, so many people like it and so many people complain about the lack of character customization in Rust. This usually means there’s a need for it and when there’s a need for something there’s usually a reason why.

Since I don’t care too much, maybe I shouldn’t be the one answering either since I don’t really have this need. I’d love to hear why the people screaming for it want it so bad. Maybe they simply wanna look badass? I don’t know but if that was the sole reason behind it I’d also say it’s a waste of time.

The thing is, the devs own design decisions in this matter have been a waste of time. Adding different sized body parts is wholly unnecessary. Dicks/breasts didn’t need to be different sizes. Arms/legs didn’t need to be different lengths. Heads didn’t need to be different sizes. They could have still achieved diversity in the players without any of these things and it still wouldn’t have turned into DayZ. Customization could be achieved without having to include any of this. So when your own example shows that the beginning of describing appearance starts before clothing options do (age, race, gender), I’ve got to ask how many people are we going to see wearing metal chest plates, red sweatshirts, and blue jeans with the road sign kilt? Saying, “I’m the black dude with the red Mohawk,” or “the white bald dude with the face paint” will be far more effective from the edge of rendering. Since I’m not going to add every person I don’t shoot to my Steam list, that rendering distance becomes the most important point in which I need to identify someone. In-game voice and name plates are only effective well within that range, and the available clothes and armors natively in game are extremely inadequate for the purpose of identification.

There was a point in time where players looking different wasn’t Rust, that zombies were Rust, that ProcGen wasn’t. The argument that it “isn’t Rust” starts to collapse when all the things that were or weren’t Rust before are examined now. The difference is that adding customization won’t have near as game-changing an impact on Rust as all those other things did, it wouldn’t make Rust any less Rust than it already is. I’ve yet to see any other game with Character Customization end up in white supremacist videos, so that chances of it happening with Rust are grossly hyperbolic. Yes there are going to be asshats out there that don’t like one race or another, or don’t want to be one sex or another, but denying it to everyone isn’t going to stop them. That’s hardly an arguable reason to deny it to those that just want creative freedom.