Remove the "Help up" feature.

A lot of threads on this forum seem to be trying to tackle the “Big Clan” problem. Most of these revolve around strange ways the game can detect if you are teamed or not ectect. Most of these are unrealistic or just plain stressing on the system.
I believe being able to help up knocked down players helps groups of >3 players about %60-%70 than it helps groups of 2 or 3 and obviously %100 more than single players.
So lets analyze why this is.

  1. The 1st issue is the fire rate of weapons. When playing solo you are usually packing a crossbow,bow,pipe shotgun or bolt action. The reason solo players use these weapons is because they are the most cost effective for their damage output. All these weapons have like 1 or 2 seconds between shots this means when you knock a player down their team mates have a lengthy period of time to help their mate up. So say you are fighting a group of three, you knock one down and start to reload 1 of the group helps up the downed the other suppresses you. leaving the helped up player on 5 hp which is redundant as it takes the exact same amount of shots to kill him as the others. Big clans will usually roll around with ak’s and other automatic weapons, so say you are in a group of 2 as soon as you drop they are able to execute you.

  2. Meds and cover. Most large clans always carry stone walls for cover and a ridiculous amount of meds, if you manage to kill one a wall is usually dropped they are revived and med up to full hp.

  3. Stealing weapons. If this feature was removed the ability to assassinate a player in a large group, Snake their gear and kill the rest would be increased.

  4. Feels unrealistic and RNGish. While it is satisfying to hear someone scream in pain after shooting them it is quite silly to have them fall down and still be alive after blowing half their face off with a shotgun or rifle. Have them drop dead is much more satisfying. The random standup feature is also silly as it adds more RNG to the game. I would argue that this also empowers group play. Similar to point one if you manage to take down 3 or 4 other players the chance of one standing up and backstabbing you is pretty high. Where clans down have this issue as they have more people to manage downed players or instantly execute them.

If this feature is not removed here is how I believe it could be improved.

a) Dramatically increase the chance of instantly dropping dead.

b) have to right click inject the downed player with a syringe. (this adds a consequence to bad play and takes longer then just drag clicking)

All i see is here a lot of complaining and poor justification.

  1. Semi-Automatic rifles. The fill this gap easily and are cheaper than either Ak or Bolt.

  2. They also drop a wall and bags for their team that die, there is no difference. A better suggestion here would be to introduce a build delay when out of building ownership. (2 Seconds to deploy a wall in the middle of a field under fire would cause most groups to preplan the placements). Also, healing up is the idea of meds.

  3. It’s entirely possible to kill people in groups solo, look up videos on Zero to hero. What you don’t want to do is make it harder for solo players to overcome the opponent. By removing the lootable weapons this is what you are doing.

  4. I agree that headshots = instant death, but to a point why can’t you medic your friend if you’re quick enough? Why not require a bandage to get that person back up rather then remove the feature entirely (Syringes make it unfair for early game people as the components are fairly middle tech)?

I don’t think you’ve thought about the game meta if your changes were considered…

  1. Semi auto rifles do no damage and have insane recoil and cost way to much cloth
  2. Dropping bags in conjunction with having help up means you have to kill the same player up to 4 times at least with a bag kill them twice and you can be sure they wont be bothering you again.
  3. Yes of course its possible just very very unlikely, Help up feature forces you to take them on from close range so that you can loot as soon as they go down. If it was removed you could kill them from range then fight for the loot.
  4. Fair point but there has to be some sort of thing to stop the instant pickup

personally i would change it to this;

a headshot kills outright, no wounded state. otherwise sufficient damage will make a person wounded and drop to the ground; while wounded, the player can continue to use gear in the hotslots. this means they can attack, heal, anything still. they can crawl around, but they move slowly. reload slowly. use a bandage slowly.

a wounded player needs bandages, syringes or medkits used on them to stabilise. bandage stops bleeding. syringe gives a small health boost. medkit does both. without the appropriate gear used, the player simply dies after 5-10 seconds.

any attacks will pretty much outright kill a wounded player. want his gear? pry it from his warm dead hands.

this makes more sense, and they could add a 10 or 15 second delay before another player can “revive” them when they are wounded.

Agree that certain attacks should be one hit kills(shotgun blast at close range, bolt to the head, stepping on a landmine)

They should re-introduce Injured. Back in Legacy when you dropped +4m youre legs where “broken” for about 40 seconds with a 50% slow. This could be added right after the wounded state. You get downed, a mate gets you up and you get a debuff for a decent amount of time. This would change the battle prioritys cuz right know as soon as someone drops the yelling starts “get me up get me up” - Person gets up rushes into cover 2 syringes and bang he is back into fight.

[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]

The Semi Rifle is an outstanding weapon you can easily outdamage aks on close to mid range + its cheap as fuck compared to any other decent weapon.

Only problem is that it drops rarely, is it an uncommon blueprint or is it up there with the rest of the expensive guns?

you can drop it with 300 frags = Book which is pretty fast done since you find a lot bps of that branch by destroying barrels

I believe the damage is not even in he realm of close to each other. I like meds to get up and a longer pick up time would be good

Balance will come in time. Right now, though, I certainly agree that being in a wounded state is outright broken.

Hell - a heli shot me off of the top of the Dome yesterday, and I somehow managed to stabilize. That just makes no damn sense - there should be situations in which you outright die. Being shot with small caliber rounds, there can always be a small chance that you are only wounded.

But then there is being shot in the face with explosive rounds, or a rocket, which you should not be able to recover from.

They should make grenades more useful in that way. So people actually use them on people instead of buildings. Using a healing item for pickup would be good, but also having certain death shots. Pocking up or healing shouldn’t magically heal part of your head missing from a headshot or explosion.

Lol. That’s funny. Yeah totally agree with you on that.

I agree with the OP. A “wounded” state should not be automatic, and the chance of it occurring should be significantly higher when damage is accumulated in peripheral body parts or low center than in shots to the head or upper center mass. Additionally there should be penalties for taking serious wounds that can’t be instantly cured through the use of cheap medkits … aka “Healing Spells”. This will encourage people to use cover more effectively, and act more in the way a real live person would act without the assumption their supernatural revival is 3 meters and 5 seconds away at any given time… it will force groups to use tactics to recover their fallen squadmates during a firefight to maintain local numbers, but it will have an actually significant impact on the battle when half a team has been “downed” at some point and are stuck at half max health, or slower to move between cover, or suffering from artificial aim penalties and increased gun sway. This conversation has been going on for a long time, I think there’s been plenty of consideration given to the “meta”… if it were being seriously considered, we could go through each and every major circumstance and identify problems and benefits.