Removing C4 for a smarter keys system.

So, I was thinking about C4, the way it is fun, and the way it is not.

Obviously, the main issue with C4 is that it allows anybody to destroy your game while you are sleeping or having a life.

Raiders stockpile even more resources from their raids, which turns out to be an upward spiral for them, allowing them to annihilate multiple player games in a single raid session.

So, is C4 fun or is it not? It’s only fun for those having it, and the fact that explosives are only dropped by air drops makes things even worst…

The C4 mechanic is flawed and is impeding the Rust experience.

What solution ?

There are many, but I was thinking of a system based on door keys.

First, you have to craft yourself a key, which is yours and unique. Then you craft a metal door. If you do not use (drag and drop) the key on the metal door, the metal door cannot be locked, but can be placed.

If you use the key on the metal door, the metal door is a locked one, and can definitively only be opened with that key. You can duplicate the key, using the repair bench and some metal fragments, so you can give duplicates of your key to any other players of your gang. Your gang members can do the same.

Note that once you get a key in your inventory, you “learn” the key, and for safety reasons (being locked in a room on respawn) you always respawn with the keys you had learned before death.

When you are killed in the outside world, one of the keys you were carrying (learned) can be looted by the enemy.

This means one hostile player got one key of your keyrings from your cadaver, and is now possibly able to progress into your base, or those of someone else, as well as being able to duplicate it for his own purposes.

If too many keyholders of a same group die and end up being looted by an opposite team, they might be forced to move out of their base, as all their doors might be compromised (that cannot be known for certain, as a newly looted key can be an already looted one).

In the end, this would open a new field of gameplay, where your base can only be looted if you die, making you “safe” in optimal circumstances when you are offline and were not killed, and would give an extra incentive for PvP and strategical gaming.

In order to permit you to set up new doors whose keys are not known by others, you can “reset” your key at any time, replacing the current one by a new unique one, but your new key cannot open your old doors (you better have a duplicate version of your old keys), and a door freshly crafted can only be locked witb your unique personal active key.

So now I die once and the person basically gets infinite C4 to my personal base? Sweet. So after every death, I’ll have to relocate or find a new server.

Very very strongly disagree on pretty much all fronts.

Raiders go offline too… raid them and take their huge stockpile of C4.
Build your base in a way that it is less likely to be raided.

“The C4 mechanic is flawed and is impeding the Rust experience.”
What it should say:
“The C4 mechanic is flawed and is impeding my Rust experience.”

“… making you ‘safe’ …” << Not a good call, I think that’s one of the best (and sometimes worst) things about Rust. You can never really be safe.

The key idea has been brought up before, the devs answer to it was the keypad on the door. Plus it seems like you’d be way less safe… since you just have to die once for the raiders to all have access to your base. Basically every time you log off all you have to do is build a new door with a new key and then log out inside… no one can ever raid you.

If you die once and already crafted a metal door with a key, yes you can be looted, if that person knows where you live. You can still set up a new door with a new key. That is fair.

Definitely not fair.

That changes nothing. In the end, it’s the raiders whose game work is destroyed. The problem is not solved at all.

My proposal does not make anyone particularly safe.

As stated, you can set up several doors with different keys, all while holding keys from other players. When someone kills you he only gets one key, randomly chosen in your keyring. That might be yours if you die just after crafting a door, and nothing else. Not worst than being raided after day 1.

You don’t seem to understand…

All anyone has to do is place a new door on their base.

They get a new key, no one else has the key because they just placed the door and haven’t died. Then they log out.

They’re inside a base that no one has a key to except themselves and no one can get inside to kill you.

AKA: raiding no longer exists except for homes with people who don’t know the exploit.

[editline]28th February 2014[/editline]

I was quoting you:

This can simply be solved by allowing players to have only one unique and personal key. What about that ?

Each time you die, you drop not your key, but a fragment of it (1/4 ?). If a player gets 4 fragment, he gets your key, and must use it before it rusts (keys have a specific lifetime).

The idea of grabbing information from players on their cadavers in order to get access to their stash; the fact that you carry vital information, all this offers much more depth and social interaction than the simple action of being lamely exploded while being offline.

So then raiders will be going around killing the same player over and over to get their key. Don’t know if I would call that “social interaction.”

Also, this essentially makes you unraidable. If no one has killed you then no one can get in. Stay close to home, run inside when you see anyone. That’s the name of the game now.

There is social interaction in the fact that you also carry keys of others, and will share some and hide some.

As for the fact you could be killed over and over by the same guy, it is already a reality. Once you respawn, it is your job to ensure it does not happen again. That’s Rust business as usual.

About the fact you could just stay close to your home, people won’t be able to do it for long with the resources spread update, as well as for the fact it is currently not really possible. You must search techs, you have to harvest, you can’t teleport back to your base.

Anyway, once you are outdoor, you are vulnerable, even if close to your home. It takes a simple headshot. Just ensure you are not spotted if you want to attack. That’s Rust business as usual.

You’ve conveniently neglected to comment on the second part of my post.

People camping outside your house, with a bead right on the door… Doesn’t sound like very much fun.

EDIT: Also, my 1000th post lol

EDIT2: You’ve now replied to the part about being unraidable… sort of. Imo, absolutely anything that leaves someone totally safe with no danger of being harmed is a bad call. This would give people those opportunities.

Is it not possible to think about weaker yet still expensive explosives like dynamite of some sort.

The solution is really simple. Add C4 to rad animals.

So you’re telling me that someone with a stack of chicken can’t sit outside someone’s house? Because they most certainly can, and for a very long time if they’d wanted to.

“Resource spread update”… I’m just not even going to bother with that.

“You must search techs, you have to harvest, you can’t teleport back to your base.” What does this have to do with anything?

I’m sorry man, but it’s a bad call and takes out a huge part of what Rust is.

Players who camp for you in the outside are vulnerable to other players. So your objection is not really plausible. Someone cannot just sit & wait close to your base without being himself at risk. Plus, such things already happen in the Rust world. This has nothing to do with a key system.

For the third or fourth time now:

This would allow players to be unraidable.

That is not going to fly no matter what, no one should ever be entirely safe.

You could only be temporarily unraidable, not if you actually play the game, which is what people tend to do when they actually want to play a game.

I’m not as concerned while someone is playing, I’m concerned about people being completely safe while logged off entirely.
No one should ever be completely safe, no matter the circumstances.

All I see is that you defend the fact that people should be in danger while they are mostly offline, which I find lame and counterproductive, while I push a solution to put them in danger while they are online, all while allowing you to visit them while they are offline if you did strategic raiding properly, not lame C4 raids when people are offline.

Here’s the thing though, C4 makes people vulnerable while offline and online. I’m sorry you find that lame.

Everyone is in so much danger while online as it is, I don’t feel like that should be any different while they’re offline or inside a building.

And what strategic raiding?
The only way you can get into someone’s base is for that person to play at the same time as you.

C4 raids while offline (or online) totally suck, I know that; they’ve happened to EVERYONE.

EDIT: I generally don’t like this lingo, but if anyone was trying to pander to the “carebears” of the game, this would be their idea. It’s not complicated that no one should EVER have the opportunity to be completely safe, I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand. As soon as you have *literal *immunity then everyone will exploit that to no end, ruining most of the strategy that has been built up in the process.

And I totally think that the whole “raiding” mechanic will be changed, things will be added over time that will force strategies to shift. The devs haven’t put too much into base defense and judging by the art on the Trello we’ll be getting some cool stuff soon enough to help us while offline. Sure, they’ll have their weaknesses, but so does everything else. And that’s the whole point.