Rust is Not a Raiding Game

I’ve seen a few threads started lately that essentially contain some form of complaining about not being able to raid people, walls are too strong, what’s the point, etc. While it’s fun to raid and go after other players, in my opinion it’s not the point of the game - it’s just a byproduct of the tools given people.

This is not a raiding game, it’s a survival game. I think because Legacy stopped being developed at the point where C4 was the item everyone coveted that many people think that’s what this game is. There’s probably a million people out there that would just be happy if FP put in C4 again and did nothing else. Even if they could already craft everything they wouldn’t give a shit if they could just blow shit up and steal.

Raiding/stealing is fine, but it shouldn’t be easy. I should be able to build a house that is impervious to lazy naked idiots that can’t take the time to survive, build, and make a plan. Whether that plan is to hide in the mountains and quietly collect an arsenal of weapons and tools to break in, befriend me and stab me in the back after I let my guard down, or join a clan/gang and work with them is up to the player.

I do think traps will drastically change the raiding game, and I can’t wait till that bear trap works. Have fun walking around in my partially submerged house or entering that unlocked backdoor by the bushes!

Agreed raiding should be a challenge, not click to profit.

Thats correct. It should be hard to raid, and mostly in teams. Thanks to that it will become more social game, and to protect yourself, and attack other, you should team up. You should be able to do everything alone, but make it HARD. You can make great unbreakeable base, but that will take time and alot of resources. With team it will go faster.

I want there to be lots more to Rust than raiding. But again, we come back to the same old question: Survive… what? What requires survival? Not the animals, unless they get some AAA professional-level AI coding. Not the elements… see above for storms, and either a burlap suit or a jog to the warmer climates beats the cold. There are no NPC’s. Radiation? Don’t walk in it. Illness/disease? Boredom?

What we survive in Rust is other players. The game mechanics are and always have been geared around combat. Much of what we learn/craft/build is geared towards attacking and defending. The fact that many or most of our fellow players are homicidal opportunists is specifically what makes this a game where “survival” is necessary. And of all the reasons players engage in open PVP (boredom, tactical challenge, love of trolling/griefing/bragging)… one of the least offensive is “you have something I want”. And where do we keep all our stuff? Our base. Without raiding, the game becomes semi-voluntary deathmatches where impenetrable bases become “lobbies” for you hang out in between matches.

I’m all for aspiring to something new and better and more elevated, but until the game is specifically designed and developed with other things in mind, it will default back to its original format… as happened with Legacy. Until that happens, whatever else we come up with… whether it’s building castles, social experiments or organizing the server population into a massive in-game human chess match… will end up just being the creative things we do on the side while playing an FPS PVP/Raiding game.

I can gather wood for 10 min alone and currently make an un-raidable base due to regen rates. Despite the OP comments, this game is 100% sold as a raid , kill other players game.

[editline]24th December 2014[/editline]

First lets me clear this is a 100% a Raiding and KOS type game, otherwise what’s the point? I can build a base, get food and survive forever …all in the span of an hour of playtime.

It should be harder to raid than it is to defend, in other words harder to break down than build up. The problem is it requires almost no time or effort to build a stone base that is unbreakable.

Wood should be able to be hacked down with a hatchet by one person, it might take time. As in real life I should be able to take a sledge hammer to a stone wall ( such as concrete block ) and over time break it down. I would need something more to take down a metal wall.

Play on a pve server if you don’t like raiding.

Destroying homes of people that gave you a lot of grief while they were online is very rewarding.

The problem is that most raiders randomly target everyone and anyone and they are dicks if they destroy the whole house. The raid should have a purpose other then to be an arse hole. Get weapons or ammo possibly take over the base, not a ten minute trip in which you bash through 8 walls to get to the cupboard then demolish the base. I have even seen these so called raiders destroy the locked boxes. What the fuck is the point in that? All the goodies gone. Raids are fine but they need to be through doors or windows imo. Bashing through a wall needs to either require the right tools or explosives.

[editline]24th December 2014[/editline]

And ha king through a wall with a hatchet or hammer is just stupid, there is no way

To be fair, the build vs. break debate has swung back and forth over the last month or so worth of updates. For the longest time it was trivial to bust through even a level 6 wall; now it’s the opposite.

That alone should tell you that the play balance is far, far from completion.

[editline]24th December 2014[/editline]

That can come with increased survival difficulty: the moment they add climate effects like cold you won’t find nudies running around with salvaged hammers for very long.

Map needs to be huge though for this to resemble anything with longevity. Already on a server I’m on that’s been around for a week or so is an acute lack of trees and minerals.

The base game needs to be easy to pick up, play and have fun with for a few minutes and then put down again without a second thought.

I think FP has nailed this. Farming and building is fun, until you get raided. I can see many people just quit the game after getting raided, and not wanting to play again, ever.

Without Rust being approachable it will never achieve any sort of longevity.

For the hardcore audience, any and all game mechanics that let you “gain” anything of value in game should be met with increasingly more difficult challenges as you go up the tiers.

I would love some rabid AI that hands my sorry ass to me on a silver platter, very few games are able to challenge the player, ninja gaiden I think is the last really “Hard” game I played.

Who’s fault is the stupid cupboard? Do you think I would have wasted C4 and time blowing up every wall in legacy? … Nope! Don’t blame the raider blame the stupid cupboard!

Clearly you didn’t play with the first set of wall, lvl 6 walls solo was over an hour of hatching just to get to lvl 5.

[editline]24th December 2014[/editline]

It never seemed to stop the legacy game from being wildly popular ( even now more so than experimental now) nobody “quit in anger” 5 million customer’s can’t be wrong.

[editline]24th December 2014[/editline]

You speak as if killing a boar and making pants, shoes and shirt is difficult or time consuming. Plus who really cares about a game were today I survived the “rain storm” whooo! I am not sure who’s idea of excitement that is :slight_smile:

Logging in and having the excitement of wondering, is my house still standing. The relive when you see it is , …the dread when you see the “respawn” button … now that’s excitement.

The raiding, wondering if you’ll get caught or trying to kill and raid all the while on the look out for the owner or another raider…that’s excitement.

Well, who says that burlap pants and shoes are going to be enough? Weren’t you the dude that caught cheating anyways?

i think the point is that everybody has their own reason for playing.

mine is to see what i can survive(in game). i put myself in the crappiest situation. i pick fights with people equipped to the brim. i build, explore and fight. i rarely raid, because it bores me to rob an empty house, or to intentionally fuck up someones build with a few clicks, but i respect that some people enjoy that.

This is not a 100% raiding KOS game. You can do those things, but that’s a personal choice. Really there is no game, just a bunch of items and things we can do to survive and interact with each other.

I’m not opposed to raiding. It just shouldn’t be easy. I also don’t really care about pve stuff that much because humans are much scarier than any ai controlled opponent.

I like the balance with buildings right now. They’re strong, and I have to go make friends to break in, and I can make a fairly secure base too.

It is still in alpha, they will get around implementing that shit that is more dangerous then other players until then, we have to wait.

Legacy’s raiding was quite balanced

Also other players will always be biggest threat

You sure? The sick ideas of Garry Newman don’t have limits.

Only reason i believe it is because devs have said it. This isnt a single player game

To the OP, unfortunately, according to the latest dev blog (40), it appears they are going to try and recreate legacy Rust’s build, raid, repeat cycle. Survival might become a feature, while boring tedious PVP will now become the focus. Not to be insulting, but from what I read it appears the PVP fanbase has won, which will lead to a really pretty, boring clone.

I hope this is not the case, and there can be a middle ground. I, like you, love the survival game so much more than playing the raiding game.

i’m not convinced. to me, they are just putting in the tools that they eventually would be porting to complete the game; the focus of the game itself hasn’t changed, just the order of development.

there are people here who want to be able to raid, rinse repeat. and i personally want that for them; as long as that’s not all you can do. rust has so much more potential than “counterstrike with houses and c4”, and hopefully the devs continue to see that.

Rust is a Paradoxical game, its not a Raiding game but it is.