RUST NEW UPDATE - NEW BUILDING SYSTEM / anylyze / suggestions - TO GARRY

Im sorry Garry but the new building system takes us our freedom, You cant place walls where you want to or railings etc. thats what hurts me the most.
You should rollback to the previous system, it would work great with the Tool Cupboard, eliminating glitchers, but cupboard overall is a bad idea, taking freedom again. Ill make my points 1 by 1 to make everything clear

  1. New building system takes freedom, as walls need to be placed at specific pre-destined locations - same goes with other elements
    WHY/IDEAS:
    One of the huge advantages of the game was making huge customizable constructs, cities and other amazing things (You know that, just look at the community updates) Also buildings were looking really good back then. WHY ARE YOU GOING BACK TO LEGACY! IT"S THE WRONG WAY! and it looked as shit.

  2. Cupboard takes player freedom, I think it should be removed or re-designed to work some other way.

WHY/IDEAS:
I know it protects us from glitchers and griefers, but things like glitches should be fixed IN THE CODE not by adding an item like that. I know you can make it happen Garry. The second thing is griefers, you should first implement some basic ways to PROTECT your home, in previous builds if you were smart enough you could protect against that also - So look at the people how they protect against that and implement some parts/builds/mechanics based on their ideas.

  1. The Wheel - It’s really nice for selecting building elements and actions - but it should be more clear for the user to operate in the wheel so he will know what hes looking for and what is he selecting.

WHY/IDEAS:

When u roll around the options on the construct wheel it makes epileptic animation (wiggle or something) that pisses me off.

another thing, it will be more useful in the future if you guys will implement more interaction with the world, for now it changes nothing in particular, just misleads the player. The menu is not clear, the icons should be bigger with colors preferably, as it adds the taste to the game, not some sci-fi grey aesthetics

  1. upgrading/de-grading mechanics is a pain and is totally unnatural, walls upgrading by themselves? what is wrong with you? I know its nice to not hammer things down for 20 mins, but its not the way to do it - IT REALLY NEEDS TO FEEL NATURAL

WHY/IDEAS:
As you are in the house you could always defend yourself by repairing the walls etc. it is the same now, I think that should be changed - so again - add defense mechanics instead of hammering down the walls while raiders hatchet it.

Option 1: Make the upgrade an instant action when you hammer it down - feels more natural.

Option 2!!!: insta-destroying walls shouldn’t be an option, every house in the real life is really hard to re-design - the frame system was nice as you could first see that will be the effect before building it, also walls that destroy when u order them to, what a stupid idea. You failed to build it properly, you would do it better next time. its not hard to build another house or anything. If the house is not used for a long time, it should rot/grow plants on it, ruin degrade at a slow rate, reaalllyyy slow rate (AND VISIBLE OFC). but we should be able to see if the house wasn’t used for few RL days. until it collapses (20 RL days) leaving ruble or something like that which can be scavenged for resources. That would add a real nice feel to the game.

Option 3: Make tools for faster, more efficient building upgrading - that would solve it.

  1. textures - I know, i know - its in development and it wont look as it looks now but for the record - it looks disgusting compared to your previous project.

  2. food/starvation - If you punish the player for not eating thats OK, I think thats a good change, but first implement some WAYS to feed the player except hunting animals!
    WHY/IDEAS:

You got the fishing rod ready, make it happen!

Many people want you to implement crops/farming system, thats a good idea - and it will add more survival taste to the game (IT’S A REALLY GOOD IDEA). It will also add trading/social interactions and teamwork which accomplished gives You huge satisfaction in rust. We need some rewards for creating a community in this harsh world, which exceeds your closest friends, instead it rewards people for beeing friendly and helps them create communities, as for now its ONLY raiding and chit chatting with people.

Interacting with things like cactus would be a nice way to get some food also.

  1. Overall this update made the game unfriendly for me, and its the first update I want to complain on. I think thats all, thanks for your time :slight_smile:

[editline]15th November 2014[/editline]

If you agree please upvote it here - http://support.facepunchstudios.com/feedback/view/2015-new-building-system-analyze-suggestions-to-garry

Alot of demanding point’s you’ve made. I personally like the cupboard idea, and I think you contradict yourself when you say they should find a fix for it instead of adding the cupboard, I’m pretty sure the cupboard is the placeholder for the fix.

Overall fun read thanks.

Hey Garry if you do read this that rotation option in the new system is fucking killer. Thank you for that.

You are literally enslaving us with this new building system, Garry!

is this update live on experiment not dev right now?

I like the new system on the development branch, it needs a lot of work, i did like that you could place walls etc. in a more spasmodic way in the old system on main branch, but i like the idea of structure stability/size based on design and physical loads on weight bearing walls/pillars, this new system would be harder to implement this the old system where we could overlap or even double or triple up the walls.

The Tool Cupboard seems like such a “sledgehammer” approach to the griefer problem. Wouldn’t it have been much simpler, and more elegant, to disallow building on the floor/foundation tiles directly in front of doors?

This would solve the problem without taking away our freedom to build…

The new system is nice, it’s like the legacy but demanding more ressources. I think it’s a nice compromise between the old and new system. It’s a little bit realistic, but not much in order to stay fun. Hammering was a nice concept, but seriously it was a bit boring to hammer stuff all the time.

I saw myself exploring and collecting more ressources than before.

If I can change something, maybe I would keep the wooden frame, in order to build the “house skeletton” like that :

http://www.everything-log-homes.com/images/timberframe-houses-1.jpg

And then hammering one time to start the building process, and spam hammering to speed up the thing.

delete mine

Trinexx, why do you find the suggestion to disallow building on the floor/foundation tiles directly in front of doors dumb? Perhaps you could explain…?

If it didn’t allow you to place a foundation in front of doors, you wouldn’t be able to start with a 1x1 and then expand later without having to bust out one of your side walls, assuming your 1x1 was going to turn into an internal safe room. You would have to start with a large base, which can be pretty dicey starting out.

[editline]18th November 2014[/editline]

Disregard that comment. I see now you said build on the foundation, not that you couldn’t build a foundation.

the new build system is shit compared to the old one. the only thing that needs to happen is make more content for people to guard because bullets and cloth are really preety easy to get without raiding.

New building system is great actually, a giant step in the right direction. I just wish that when walls fall due to gravity they should hurt or kill people under them. Might make people think twice before the crop through the bottom floor of a tower.

Posted this on the rust subreedit about the minecraft approach, hope the dev team don’t decide to change it.

"Since the release of the experimental version, the game has gained a lot of potential.
Legacy introduced a basic gameplay that may develop into an excellent game but was fundamentally constrained by many ill-conceived and poorly scripted content.
Things needed to change for the better at that time.

The experimental version was the opportunity to start from scratch which was a great thing for the community and the quality of the game itself, although there has been a somewhat chaotic start in the first weeks due to a lack of content wich was perfectly normal.

Like it or not, Rust became a minecraft like simply because the building system has evolved in the right direction and allow us today a certain freedom and creativity when we want to use our imagination.
DO NOT DELETE THIS APPROACH, I sincerely request it. It’s a core feature of the new rust.

The new approach introduced by the update 34 on the developer branch completely deconstruct the efforts and changes introduced since the release of the experimental version.
Do not delete what you’ve managed to create : a system based on survival, pvp, gathering resources and ultimately speaking, creating more imposing and complex building bases as the survival journey of the player goes on.

It is certain that the game must be balanced, Right now to bring some balance you can simply progressively increase the quantities of materials required to build.
Asking a player to collect 300 units of wood to be able to put a single foundation or wall is unproductive and by definition gameplay destructive because it will force players to collect yet still more wood and will ultimately lead to an extensive deforestation and biome destruction.
Especially now since removing a block do not refund the resources invested. The balancing limit is therefore located here, you cannot ask the player to pick up more wood than there is on the map.

The new build system is also devoid of physical interaction and gives an artificial impression of construction, I do not want the server to build my house for me, I want to build it wall by wall, brick by brick and enjoy the changes in appearance as I put effort in it.
This is an effect of immediate reward that appeals to all players so PLEASE DO NOT DELETE IT nor replacing it with the new system that is anything but based on interaction with the player and his construction items.

Simply remove the second stage of every building evolution, keep the level 0 then upgrade with a wood upgrade, a stone one and a final upgrade with a very expensive iron shield (currently equivalent to level 6).
Same mechanic for the destruction with 3 levels to destruct before you can remove the completely built unit.

We must move towards simplifying and balancing existing elements instead of complexifying or completely replacing a system that works.

Players want to build bases and homes, help them to do so more quickly when they have the resources to reduce the time to build !
Please do not remove the current system, it just needs some tweaking to be faster and maybe more expensive but not with the values introduced in the update 34, because they are way much too high."

Some good points are made. I Feel that the new building system is a good step but I feel that the “Total revert to legacy” is unneeded. The previous cost of building was a joke at best. 10 minutes of wood collecting and you could build a sizable base and a few metal rocks could get you to level 6. Now 20 minutes of woodcutting and stone collecting barely gets you a 2x2 shack. I feel a good middle ground is needed, half of the current cost maybe.

You currently CAN hammer your walls and make them build faster.

I quite enjoyed building log cabin style houses/castles. It just felt like “RUST”. The new thin building style is way too industrialized. The boards look like they came straight from a saw mill with nice paint. Going back to the minimal building snaps is going in the wrong direction. I liked being able to make cool looking houses and not just square boxy buildings.

To me it feels like the new building system is being peer pressured into place by the 10% that dislike the hammer and log style.

I love the latest patch, definitely a move in the right direction, but…

  1. Need WAY too much wood to build, you spend all your time in rust cutting down trees, becomes repetitive, stone is close to being just as bad now.

  2. Why spend all day building a base if I can’t secure it? Why rid metal walls and floors? I can now get into any base, easily in under 20mins, most in 5-10. We should have a way to secure our bases if we put the time in, even if it takes a long time. Nothing worse than building all day to have someone get in while your logged out for 30 mins and take hours worth of resources gathered.

I had over 15k of metal fragments and no way to use them, it’s almost made them redundant other than for weapons and ammo. If a player can shape a gun out of smelted steel, why can’t he make walls and floors, it’s a silly thing to get rid of?

Anyway, that’s it, i’m otherwise happy with the patch and the direction, but won’t be playing until they allow me to secure my base, no point wasting my time and effort.

If I were Garry I wouldn’t even reply to a post like this. WHY? BECAUSE! (I REALLY WOULDN’T)

Haha, this!

Plz guy (op), why does no one get it thats rust is a game in progress, this is an alpha , its not even a full game yet , its not even a beta!!! stop complaining and be happy about patches like this!!! This patch is epic! It made me get excited about rust again! Yes there are some bugs / things i dont like… But plz … ITS AN ALPHA! (early access)

Déjà vu anyone?

Redundancy is good, sometimes. But in your case its just getting annoying. These forums were created for us (as in everyone but you) to post our opinions about the game in it’s current state. We are well aware that the game is in a very heavy development stage. But this stage is were our opinions are most needed.
Granted, some of the posts above are a tad… hostile… and immature – so that is why Facepunch gave us the “Rate post feature”.

I think what Rust needs is a sense of permanency. We need to keep our stuff through the patches and we need to have bases that we can keep for months if we wish to : no more minute-raid, no more hackers bashing the walls at lightning speed, the items must not be raided through the walls, etc. This is driving people away… the last time I felt involved while playing was back on legacy, since experimental everything feels temporary and fake; we need to feel like the base we are building is a foundation, an establishment.