Suggestions to Create Healthy PvP

When done correctly, PvP can be an awesome thing. It can create terrifying, hilarious moments, and epic stories with friends that leave both the victor and slain feeling satisfied. Healthy PvP involves risk from both parties, fair play and involvement. It’s pretty obvious that we don’t YET have that in Rust, but as always it’s a developing project. Here are my suggestions to create an awesome, healthy PvP experience in Rust and steer it away from the pitfalls of similar titles that have come before it.

**1) Sleeper Times Reduced/Limited **
The benefit of the “sleeping” mechanic is that you eliminate the Dayz ALT-F4 disconnect to get out of jail free. And that is awesome. However the by-product of that is 99% of PvP currently takes place when one of the combatants isn’t even online. They miss out on any participation, epic story, decisions, ANYTHING. They are completely removed from the PvP experience. Even the aggressor misses out on so much when PvP is simply reduced to wacking someone who just lays there asleep. This is terrible PvP! By restricting Sleeping Time (the amount of time a body remains vulnerable in world after logging out) to a couple of hours, not permanently. This still retains all the benefits of the sleeping mechanic (not DC’ing in the middle of a fight, must log out in a strategic place) but actually will return PvP to PLAYER VS. PLAYER. I think we may have forgotten what PvP is an acronym for.

2) Weapons Should be All/Mostly Old School
As seen in Dayz and other similar games, when the game devolves into snipers-only blasting people from huge distances, far removed from any interaction between combatants, or risk, it’s really cheats the players out of any meaningful PvP experience. In my opinion, the low tech, close/mid range weapon arsenal should be greatly expanded. Think about it, I have had a great experience with bows and arrows, hatchets (both on the dying or living end of battle) but has ANYONE had a good experience getting shot from ??? location where you have no idea who is killing you? Spears, shields, swords, javelins, better bows, and more could replace the high-tech guns and especially bolt action rifles to create closer range battles. A big attack might actually require more people to pull it off if they rush into your town with shorter range weapons instead of one guy #yolo’s your town with an M16. If high-tech weapons are deemed essential, they could be greatly reduced in availability, possibly uncraftable, only rare loot drop etc. We have enough games where the only viable play style is hop-on with a sniper, and we’ve seen that most of the game’s other content is lost in the process.

3) Give value to structures
Right now, wooden structures are almost completely worthless, and metal doesn’t seem to hold out much better. Two minutes with an axe is not hard to get into. Even metal doors don’t provide much because your walls can go down instead. One of the best parts of this game is the crafting and ability to build and impact the game world strategically. Building a fortress with friends and defending it from bandits (while awake! see: #1) is a great experience. Having all houses be made of cardboard and offer very little real protection is not. Thankfully, the dev’s have already acknowledged that defense is essentially non-existent and that they want to fix it. I agree.

What do you think of these suggestions? What are some additional suggestions that would create healthy PvP?

Hope you enjoyed the read!

-Hax

Although i can respect your thoughts. I’m not sure i agree 100%. Let me explain.

1.) Sleeping timers reduced, to prevent disconnecting people from logging out like DayZ… Well this isn’t Dayz. I don’t agree at all. Keep it in, it adds excitement to me to kill someone sleeping in a room (they didn’t protect) and i get guns off their body. I enjoy it and think the danger of logging out is part of the risk / reward of the game. Same thing could happen to you too and it’s fair.

2.) Weapons should be old school. - This one i agree with you on 90% I think the fact you could go into a town and loot a M4 is ridiculous. This is a topic i could go on forever about. Esp how to improve it. Lets just say to keep things short i believe in crafting weapons then “finding” them. and not only that i think M4’s are a tad high tech. I do believe we should start out with more bow’s (esp more options) it’s fun to shoot the bow. maybe even give us a way to upgrade it to a compound bow… more speed less arch… a aimer… ect ect… I like your idea of spears and shields… but I still think GUNS should remain in also. I just want the “Guns” to not be “found” items… and i believe it should be HARD to craft. so you can’t get guns in the first 3-5 days. You should have to build parts… get ore into metal… make parts… make wood parts… for handles… ect ect and eventually have to combine a bunch of parts to craft a gun. I don’t mind their in the game… they just need to be much much harder to get… and not lootable out of chests. (maybe have the parts you make lootable to speed up the process a “tad”)

3.) And as it stands now a wooden wall and a metal door both need 2 C4 to get through. The same really. you just have to build your structures better. (see the picture here: http://prntscr.com/2n3jjn )
I think they should definitely add things. They need more kind of walls… not just metal or wood. They should add… concreate… or sand base buildings for the beach… also different textures for the same pieces so it doesn’t look so blane and repetitive. They could give us defensive pieces (which i know they are looking into) like C4 on a trip mine or proximity mine) Box’s that explode if looked in. or even better yet… defense turrets for end game… where you can mount 1 gun that auto targets people within a certain range… and that has to be shot out in order to get close. giving you another line of defense esp from those pesky nakids that run around.

I like what your trying to communicate tho keep it up! It’s only alpha and a lot can still change.

That would be good.

care to expand Klinkvonstal? lol

I would like to see a server with monthly alternation of PVE/PVP. It would be fun to safely build up your resources and then let them be tested the next month. Much more noob friendly during the PVE month.

They don’t react to the noise and vibration of C4 around them? They dont react to hatchet cut through their flesh? You are not raiding sleepers in a castle but comatose in a hospital. How fun is that? You are doing a burglary and desecrating a non-living body. Is that exciting? Isn’t the burglary rewarding enough?

The technology to build a musket or a rifle from the wild west can be envisioned in Rust context. I’m must suspicious about a M4.

True true… I can see you have a valid point of hitting a comatose patient but again we are playing a game and not Real life… but I can understand and see your point. :slight_smile:

and yes i agree about the guns. could also make them only come from the drop from a air plane. then you don’t have to make them… they get dropped in… ?

Hey Loominal, thanks for your well thought out feedback.

You make some good points regarding the sleeping mechanic. My question for you would be, if we accept your point that slaying offline opponents has value and should remain and you do not like the idea of limiting the offline sleep time to a few hours, do you have any other suggestions that would possibly balance out the 99% - 1% offline PvP / online PvP ratio?

In other words, what alternative changes could be made to lower the amount of PvP in which one or more combatants has no meaningful experience in the process, and increase the amount of combat in which both players are actually online and participating?

I like his proposal. I think comatose are weird and make the game non workable for casual players. But that’s a fine way to restrict obnoxious disconnecters. So adding a timer to them could be nice.

My proposal in regards of comatose would have been that the presence of comatose in a building stop the decay. So it tells other players there is a guys comatose to kill inside, it’s not without risk, but a well hidden little house could help a casual player to survive still even though he play only once per week. That seems to me like an acceptable middle ground.

This is a game for survival out in a world were other players are actively playing when your offline. I’m not sure there is much you can do but be with a group of friends and try to rotate and have people on when you’re not. I mean if you want a TRUE PVP game… you need to go play counter strike. seriously this game is not even close to a Counterstrike type of game… if your in it for that type of combat… then your in the wrong game… no?

1) Sleeper Times Reduced/Limited
I’d actually hate to see any changes to how sleeping works. If I logout outdoors, I’ve taken a risk that I understand. If I logout indoors, I’m probably near a bed or sleeping bag that would be destroyed during a raid anyway. The big problem that I see is that players would just put all their most valuable items in their inventory, taking away part of the benefit of raiding along with the risk of having a weak structure. I really like the existing tension that surrounds sleeping.

2) Weapons Should be All/Mostly Old School
Hear, hear! The unique primitive caveman vibe of this game is totally subverted by the modern weaponry. Any craft-able firearm should be a medieval style single-shot item with a slow reload. The improvised firearms are practically irrelevant in the game, which is unfortunate. I think battles are much more enjoyable when nobody involved has discovered how to build the modern guns. If kept, the modern guns should be un-craft-able and should degrade rapidly with each shot. That way, the player who gets that weapon and their crew would enjoy a big temporary advantage, but the balance would be restored in the end.

3) Give value to structures
I thought walls were immune to melee damage. I do like the tension of never feeling completely safe. Logging in after a raid on my structure is initially stressful, but it’s motivation to fix my errors and build it better. I don’t have strong feelings for this one, but I don’t like the idea of changes that might lead to turtle-ing.

oh no, I am not trying to create a “counterstike” or CoD experience. At all. Actually the opposite, I want to remove that. My suggestions are aimed at reducing Player V Offline, and replacing it with player interactions that are actually fun. Snipers-only combat is not fun, and 99% of PvP consists of slaughtering helpless offline players, is not fun either. I think my suggestions offer an alternative to that.

I like your ideas, perhaps a time limit of 1 hour for a sleeper , then they log off. Right now I have several members of my server that are very part time players, they find it difficult to make any progress when they can only play 2 to 3 times per week.

108.61.10.34:29515

Thanks Krylez. And I agree with the tensions and risk part. In my opinion, leaving X hours of sleeping after logging still gives us the benefits of what you describe. For example, logging outdoors would still be risky, and logging indoors would still leave a window of X hours where someone could raid and kill you. It just like the window to kill you while you’re not even participating, doesn’t need to be unlimited to get those benefits.

Edit: And the best part, if the sleeping limit is say 5 hours. And after 5 hours you just HAVE to log on for a second to check to see if you lived…you just started the 5 hour countdown again :smiley: now that…is tension.