The Conflict of Balancing in Rust, and Some Suggestions

Hi. My name is Mitch. I just deleted about a thousand words complaining about getting raided. I realized it was useless, and took away from the suggestions I have.

    Bear in mind, the suggestions I will make have probably already been suggested, and in all likelihood a few of them are even being worked on by developers.

    The current major problem with Rust is that the rich get richer and the poor are left with nothing. As a player gets more powerful in Rust, it gets easier for them to conquer lesser players. This makes sense. However, there comes a point where there are enough powerful forces on a server to completely obliterate anyone else's chances of achieving equivalent wealth. On one hand, logic would dictate that in order to balance things, barriers should be put in place to prevent super powerful players from crushing new spawns. However, this takes away from what Rust is all about, the interactions between players that have all started from scratch. There's no true solution to this conflict.

    Allow me to get slightly off topic. My point will (hopefully) become clear eventually. When foreigners first arrived in America, wars began between the natives and those seeking land to claim for their country. These conquistadors, as they were known, had weaponry far more advanced than that of the natives. Their battles were not unlike those of a new spawn with a bow versus a gunman with metal armor in Rust. The gunmen, for the most part, were victorious. Those who were proven to be weaker at fighting were wiped out, and their land was taken. Except, in Rust, the natives respawn.

    Despite how it tries, Rust can never accurately simulate what it would be like to establish a community from scratch, and a large contributor to that fact is the respawn system. Do not misunderstand me; I am not suggesting that we get rid of respawning in Rust. I am simply saying that we cannot resolve the conflict between new spawns and gunmen by examining history.

    Instead, an underlying balancing system must be implemented, one that alters the behavior of a powerful player while making it seem like it's their decision. The goal is to establish a method of lowering their desire to raid someone weaker than them. In order to do that, one must examine their motives for raiding in the first place.

    Players raid bases primarily for the loot they contain. There is a secondary motive, the thrill of destroying someone else's work, but for our purposes we shall focus solely on the looting aspect. Advanced players raid lesser bases and bases equivalent to their own in order to acquire resources without gathering them. It is indisputably a more efficient method of gaining resources. Keep in mind, I am not entirely against raiding. I simply believe raiders should only have motive to attack those of an equivalent or higher strength than themselves. Back to the point I am trying to make. When a player gets strong enough to raid other bases, their time spent searching for rocks lowers a significant amount. Therefore, the best way to stop a player from raiding a smaller base than theirs is to introduce a more efficient method of acquiring resources. How to go about doing this, however, is more open ended.

    Things have already been put in place to achieve such a goal. For example, quarries and oil rigs allow players to acquire rocks and metal without having to go out and gather it themselves or breaking into someone else’s base. However, more could be done to lessen their motive for raiding small bases. For example, farms that include growing crops and breeding animals could be implemented, reducing the desire to loot bases for resources such as cloth and food. Perhaps even factories could be introduced, mass producing things such as armour and clothes. This could even give rise to stores in Rust. Thus far, Rust has been steered towards fighting and fighting alone, even though it could be so much more. Raiding will always remain, no matter what is done, and that’s a good thing. But if other ways of achieving tremendous wealth were implemented, it would take some of the heat off of players trying to establish a decent base.

tl;dr When it boils down to it, I am trying to get two points across. First, something needs to be done about the state of players who have bases made of stone and wood. They are extremely vulnerable, and a player with enough metal to make a couple of pickaxes could raid either of them. Second, I believe Rust can become so much more than a game solely about fighting.

Keep in mind, everything I have said is simply my opinion, and I welcome disagreement and criticism. I also encourage further suggestions in the comments.

Thanks for bothering to read all of this. Sorry for any mistakes in grammar, spelling, or logic.

-Mitch

thing is though, a basic stone hut takes almost no effort to set up.

a 2x2 house is something like 2800 stone to upgrade walls, foundation and roof, which is not a lot if you are anywhere near a place with some mining nodes. the 45 animal fat for a furnace is pretty easy to come by, and if you split stacks you can have a code lock from the metal in 10 minutes, and upgrade your door to sheet metal.

i find it bizarre that anyone would even have a wood house long enough to be noticed and raided by people more powerful than them, and even then i get a bit of a thrill knowing that my enemy is far more powerful but i still have a chance to kill them if i play it right.

imo it just boils down to experience and learning, there are a number of things players can do to not get killed by big aggressive clans:

  • dont build near them
  • find better/more hidden spots out of the way for bases
  • only start building when you have enough resources to upgrade the basics to stone and enough for a furnace
  • get more resources and build decoy stone houses a bit closer to enemy bases, they are more likely to be raided and discourage clans from raiding smaller buildings as it wastes C4 to blow through many walls/doors to find a chest with a torch in.

i disagree that a group can get to the point that they can prevent anyone on the server from progressing, i would argue its more other players not playing their cards right.

there’s a massive island to live on, you can have sleeping bags that allow you to move massive distances by suiciding, you can easily set up and get yourself more established before big clans even realize you are on the server.

Atm Rust is well balanced imo. Raiding with c4, rockets is extremly expensive and its ok. Most of new players bases are raided, cause they did some simple mistakes in base design (like wood/metal sheet parts, no roof, rotated walls, etc).

Usually using deceit will make your base safer.

For example i still use the 1x1x1 shack with a cupboard in it around my base but i don’t have overhangs around my base,catch is that they also contain a large chest.

I’ve been raided plenty and 4-8 large chest full of loot is more then enough to keep me up and going after a raid.I invest most of my resources to build "addon buildings to my main base,some of these are empty while others contain loot.

I even have a furnace room where i have triangle foundations at the side that are enclosed by a wall and door so every 2x furnaces is sealed off.Some of them have fake floors where i hide chests below them that can be accessed from another empty furnace shack.

I’ve also experimented by making a base consisting entirely of 1x1x1 shacks that are spaces 2x foundations apart.A few got raided but the raiders gave up after a while.Wasn’t easy to maintain due to maintenance.

I agree with you completely, but you’re missing my point. Building a stone base still isn’t safe from raiders. Obviously, nothing is, and that fits with the theme of Rust. I simply mean from my experience that even if I go to extreme lengths to hide my base, keeping them extremely far away from all types of resources that draw the attention of players, it gets raided with a day. Perhaps I am simply unlucky.

I agree with most of what you are saying. Things such as C4 and Rockets are balanced well. However, the point of my OP was that stone bases are incredibly vulnerable. Someone could simply spawn in, mine like three metal nodes, cook the metal in a large furnace and have a couple of pickaxes within 20 or so minutes. Suddenly, this player who has been collecting enough metal to upgrade their walls to armored for 3 hours gets raided by a guy who has been on the server for no longer than 30 minutes. In my opinion, that should not be the case.

You raise some very good points, and I’m certain there’s more I could do to deceive raiders. However, back to my previous point. I still feel it’s unfair how quickly someone can ruin another person’s hard work. In my opinion, that raider should have spent at minimum half of the time on the server as the other player.

Thanks to everyone for the response. You guys raise some very good points, and I’ll take them into account :D.

Sorry but if u place stone walls right, then raider need about 90 pickaxes to destroy your 1 stone wall and it will take ALOT of chopping time. Sounds like u are just newb who don’t see difrence between external/internal wall - so like i said, just simple design mistakes makes some bases easy to raid. If u build decent stone base (even small) it takes ALOT time and effort to raid this.

Even though I feel you are exaggerating when you say it takes 90 pickaxes to break in, you still bring to light information I was not aware of. I had heard of the update with walls having a strong side and a weak side, but in my recent Rust adventures I was a nomad without a home, and never experimented with this. I suppose I should have done a lot more research about the recent updates before stating my case.

Thank you for your info. :smiley:

If you’re attacking from the exterior of a stone wall.70-90 pickaxes per wall sounds about right.

If you want to test it,attack the weak side of a wall with pickaxes and then multiply the amount you used by 10 (for example,if it took 7 pickaxes on the weak side then it will take 70 on the strong side).i think that rate was right last time i checked.

Just wanted to point out that Rust is a survival game, not a fighting game. The players turned it into a raiding, looting, killing game.

I’m noticing on some servers though, that the game is taking a turn and raiding, killing and looting isn’t the goal anymore.

I was on a server where there were many wood houses. little villages, as well as solo shacks and bases out in the middle of no where. Everyone was pretty cool and a lot of game chat was “I have an extra BP for “X” if anyone wants it”. or “Can someone make me a large chest until I find the BP”, etc, etc.

Yes, there were still raids, and clan wars, but it was all in fun.

Guns need a heavy downside balance across the board if they really plan to push melee combat.

Make guns easy to find, but bullets impossibly rare and expensive.

PvE would be a massive help. At the risk of making it sound like Destiny or World of Warcraft, I believe “bosses” would help ease the attacks on smaller players.

These “bosses” would be basically anything PvE that take multiple players with heavy gear to kill. If the group succeeded, they were rewarded with resources. If they failed, then chances are they lose all the gear/equipment they had. The rewards would have to be balanced so that they were not overpowered, but at the same time encouraged players to do these “bosses” over raiding smaller players.

In my head, I’m picturing things like huge rad towns filled with mutants. Clear the town, kill the mutants, get the loot. Or perhaps cave systems with animals/monsters. Same idea. Clear the cave, kill everything, get resources. Maybe even just huge world bosses that spawn and roam. Kill the boss, get the loot.

I like it. Someone in another thread mentioned radiated coal mines and stuff like that. It’d be cool to see players working together against a common enemy