Things rust needs to fix the imbalance

Alright so I’ve been playing rust and have noticed some rather glaring balance issues in terms of game play… things I’m surprised a game intended to be a dayZ clone has.

Let me preface by saying that I enjoy rust, I just find that the game in it’s current state is beyond broken. And not for the same reasons most people QQ about.

#1. Medkits + Bandages
Okay so there’s a bleeding mechanic in the game, GREAT! However this is almost immediately countered by having bandages. Furthermore low health can be quickly healed by using a medkit. Now let me get one thing straight, I -love- these two items. What I hate is that they are instant use, can be spammed, and can even be used while firing a gun. This ruins the survival aspect when you can get the jump on two players, and they can turn around, use a Large Medkit (which are stupid easy to create) and then kill you.

I will summize with a story: A friend and I were waiting by a road to ambush people. 2 enemies wearing kevlar showed up, and didn’t notice we were there. I shot 1 with a bolt action rifle and my friend got 3 pistol shots on the other. Now normally in such a situation, my friend and I would have come out with the spoils of war, however this was not the case. Instead, our two targets plopped down a wooden barricade, healed up instantly with a bandage and a huge medkit, then blew us away with m4 rifles. -this is not reminiscent of a survival game.

#2. Barricades and other instant placables.
Okay so there are items in the game that can be placed nearly anywhere instantly (as exemplified by the previous story) break the flow of any firefight, to the point of stupidity. In what scenario can you be taking fire and instantly throw down a wooden shack, throw a door up, and hide in it? It makes no sense whatsoever.

#3. Bullet Drop / Range
So this is something I figure they plan on patching but i want to rag on it anyways. Why is it that my guns shoot bullets that go perfectly straight, then disappear instantly once they reach a certain range? There’s already arrow drop in the game, so why not just copy that mechanic onto guns. This way people wont be able to headshot so easily, and skilled marksmen can get shots off from longer ranges.

#4. The crafting system for weapons.
Again this is something I hope is getting fixed soon, but it’s in the game as it stands so i reserve the right to gripe. Weapons are made far too easily. I mean 30 low quality metal to make an m4 rifle? What about the plastics for the buttstock? And are you telling me you using the same metal for the barrel as you do the spring mechanisms? How the hell does this heap of twisted garbage even operate? And how do you carry it for more than 5 minutes without your arms falling off?
Why not implement a system wherein you need to craft each part of a weapon, from different materials, and not just stuff you can find lying around anywhere. Then finally put it together at a workbench with a fairly long crafting time. Maybe you need to gather plastic from melting down water bottles for the stock. Use a metal former for springs and such, the barrel made from metal and cloth for the lining, etc. This would be much more realistic and would also mean people would be less willing to risk high value wepaons when they take so long to make.

#5. The weapon curve
There need to be more lower end weapons. Things like swords, more bows, crossbows, hammers, slingshots, etc. Stuff you would expect to use to survive. The fact that I can spawn into a server, run to the nearest town, find a shotgun then blow my way across the map is silly. There are 3 major towns in this game, all of which are factories, not military bases, so why are guns so easy to find? an m9 pistol should be rare, and coveted, never-mind having high powered automatic weapons 1 hour after being in the world.
(I mean really I’ve been on my current server a day and I have 10 shotguns, 13 p250s, 5 MP5s, 3bolt action rifles, and an M4. with about 200+ ammo for all of it… all from looting towns, and that’s with reduced drop rates.)

#6. Blueprints
Blueprint knowledge should be lost after death. There is barely risk in dying if i don’t lose the knowledge i have to be able to craft new get from readily re-spawning resource nodes. low risk means no need to worry about survival, which creates an annoying environment.
(today i died 4 times lost a bunch of gear in a raid but ended up with enough raw materials to make twice as much as I had lost… no risk, because i didn’t lose my crafting knowledge)

#7 Town Loot
I did touch on this earlier, but town loot should be fixed. No high powered weapons (maybe only the blueprints to make one?). Let towns have things like food, medicine, radiation suits etc. Stuff you would actually find in a town. You should still be able to find the occasional p250 or m9 but they should be very rare.

–To be continued–

1,2) Just do it yourself? It’s balanced when both sides can do it.
3) This just makes shooting less responsive and the game less fun to play
4) Alpha, also you care too much about “realism”
5) Alpha
6) This would encourage an unreal amount of carebearing
7) Alpha

1/2.Doesnt make the game any more survival like - its still a stupid feature
3.-Learn to shoot? it’s a survival game
4.-I care about balance and survival
5-Stupid excuse, if the game was designed properly, this would be a pretty easy fix. (programmer here, OOP ftw)
6- so its better that when I get myself killed i keep all my memories and knowledge? why bother trying to survive?
7- Still a bad excuse, this could be easily fixed

I think DayZ might be a better game for you seeing about you care so much about survival and not actually playing a fun game.

I kinda agree with ur ideas except for the 6th one (I might come tomorrow with more feedback , I’m out for now)

Well when you check Steam info about the game it’s like this:

"The only aim in Rust is to survive.

To do this you will need to overcome struggles such as hunger, thirst and cold. Build a fire. Build a shelter. Kill animals for meat. Protect yourself from other players. Create alliances with other players and together form a town.

Whatever it takes to survive."

And tbh the only thing you do or “worry” (if you have no friends) after 30 minutes of gameplay is “Protect yourself from other players. Create alliances with other players and together form a town.”.

Yeah I know it’s alpha but I suppose some things wont change even when the game is out.

Yeah, I tend to agree with them all except number 6. Maybe a small chance to lose some of your BP’s but even then…

This would be good. Maybe you lose higher level ones but keep lower leveld ones or something.

You would always keep the ones you started the game with. With the learned ones you would have a small chance (5-15%) to lose a percent of the ones you learned.

This should be in suggestions. And remember this is in alpha :slight_smile:

  1. explosives
  1. They already changed medkits to a heal over time effect as opposed to healing the entire amount instantly. This means they cant be spammed anymore. Further, the effects of a medkit are easily cancelled by taking damage again.

Problems with the story you gave: There were two of you versus two of them, yet they only had to put one barricade down to gain cover from your fire. The only feasible scenario for this to work is that you and your buddy were very close to each other when you decided to ambush these other guys. That’s a bad ambush. Normally you might have been playing against less resourceful or prepared players, but the fact that these two were prepared doesn’t make the game broken. You just happened to encounter more resourceful players and their tactics beat yours. Superior tactics is reminiscent of combat in a survival game, bad ambushes shouldn’t win all the time.

  1. Building is getting some changes made. I’m not sure how far FP is taking the changes, but there were screenies released of 3 stages to build foundations, etc. If this applies to all placeable objects, then it seems this point of yours is already in the works.

  2. Bullet drop makes sense. It would make me a horrid shot, but it makes sense.

  3. TBH, the crafting system for everything seems underdeveloped. Crafting parts to finally assemble would be a better way to go, but I think that will be something we wait for way down the line. Modern guns will get taken out of the recipes eventually, perhaps even Kevlar, but the way we craft everything would benefit from a deeper crafting system.

  4. What you can normally expect to survive depends a lot on where you come from. It’s no big secret us americans are gun nuts, so it isn’t unreasonable for us to find firearms of some sort just about anywhere we go. I agree the drop rates are pretty crazy. My point on this one is similar to #4 though, the system is underdeveloped and will get fleshed out in time.

  5. I will straight disagree with this one. Not because it adds an element of danger to me, but because it adds more motivation for the top in power to knock everyone else down to stay there. New spawns are getting waxed left and right already, but at least they can keep their recipes they might be lucky to find. If this were implemented, the forum would be just as hot with people crying about being killed, but now they’d have another reason to bitch about getting killed.

  6. I’d suggest just merging this point with #5. They are nearly identical and the answers will be similarly identical.

It shouldn’t affect your ability to shoot at close to mid-range. Bullet drop should only be noticeable at probably around 175m+.

I don’t get all these threads about ‘how you should balance the game’

I imagine Garry and the rest of the dev team know much more about what’s going to work and what’s not going to work than we do

Fair enough, maybe I want turn into such a horrid shot then. =D

  1. Still it strikes me as a little odd that it takes me 15 seconds to make a pillar (which amounts to nailing two 2x4s together), yet doing a blood transfusion, bandaging/cautarizing wounds, doesnt even take time for an animation. I can be holding a Bolt action rifle, aiming down the sights, and yet still heal myself with it. As for the Heal over time point, large medkits (which are very easy to make after a couple hours playing) are incredibly strong and still heal very fast. It’s exactly the same as popping a health potion in one of those free to play MMO games, which really doesn’t fit the feel of rust.

When it comes down to it, you should be able to bandage yourself in the field to stop bleeding. You should have to take out the bandage and go through at least a 2-3 second animation, then you can pull your gun back out. Medkits should be something that takes maybe 5-6 seconds to use and heals 2-3 HP rather than 6-8+. They should be something you use after a fight when you’re safe and you actually have the time to start a blood drip and such.

1.5 Sorry i didnt take much time out to talk about the story. let me clarify by saying he approached from the back and I from the side. They both had barricades. it was quite silly.

  1. yay

  2. my point exactly

  3. still, even in america, i cant see myself looting abandoned buildings for 10 minutes and making out with a couple shotguns, an m5, some c4, and a pistol. And even if there is a place like that (militia groups… texas, etc) i feel like anything useful would have already been gone. respawn rates need to be significantly lowered, and the spawn rates for the good chests need to be reduced. This would make it more logical that on a rare occasion you find a gun, yet normally you find some food scraps, cloth, paper, etc. stuff you would expect to find in a city.

  4. Okay fair enough, ill give you that one. though i still think we need someway that makes higher level players think twice about attacking everyone on sight. In a real survival scenario you wouldnt want to give away your position, and you’d have to contend with the moral dilemma of ending human life. Respawning, and the fact that this is a game respectively take away both of those elements in the game which really detract from the survival aspect.

Well that would really depend on the gun. See in Object Oriented Programming there are things called classes. These classes can have subclasses. SO what they would need to do is define a “gun” class with variables like ‘muzzle velocity’ ‘caliber’ ‘weight’ etc, then the sub classes would each be their own gun, and would use those variables to calculate effective range. It would take some time to do the calculations but the math is out there on the internet, im sure the programmers could do it.

I think the best way to combat people abusing explosives would be that crafting explosives has a 25% chance or something to blow up in your face and kill you (losing all your items in the process). Fact is some of the best explosive experts in the world have blown themselves up… so why should my untrained character know how to make a c4 charge, perfectly, 100% of the time, just by reading a piece of paper (aka blueprint)

Responding to my own point here. By no means am I saying the rust team are bad game designers. I think they’re doing a pretty good job. I enjoy the game a lot so far, i just feel that there’s also a fair amount of room for improvement on currently existing features.

As a final point for those people running around crying “IT’S ALPHA, IT’S ALPHA” Here is my counter point taken from the following address http://playrust.com/early-access/

“We want the players to influence the direction we take development. Having a huge amount of people testing the game and giving us constant feedback about the things we’re adding, removing and changing is a huge deal for us.”

Point is, I’m well aware this is an alpha game. What you need to be aware of is that, we are ‘alpha testers’. The developers WANT opinions and ideas.

This isnt a super realistic game. Its supposed to be fun not press a key to put my hand into my backpack then press the next key to grab the bandage then next key to take the bandage out then next key to unravel the bandage then next key to start puttong on the bandage. Then the 10 minute animation of the bandage getting out on. Go play dayz?

I love how you confuse “realism” with proper survival game design.

Instant popping of bandages and medkits… those are MMORPG type qualities.

It takes 15 seconds to craft pillars in this game (a task i could complete in about a minute in real life).
It takes 2-3 seconds to reload my gun in this game. (a task i can complete in about 5 seconds in real life).
It takes 0.0 seconds to wrap my bleeding bullet wound in a bandage, or administer an IV and do a blood transfusion in this game. (a task which would take significant time in real life, and that your average person can’t even do).

This is not a case about wanting realism, it is a case of maintaining constancy throughout gameplay.
It makes no sense to time building, reloading, and other aspects of the game, but make medkits and bandages instant.
Hell, It takes longer to regenerate health in Call Of Duty and other FPS games than it does to get to full health in rust with a large medkit, and FPS games are all about fast run-gun gameplay.

As to your point about playing DayZ, that has nothing to do with the original post and is obviously an inflammatory troll remark and not a legitimate suggestion. As such the point is moot, and you’ve shown how little maturity you posses with your inability to join a civilized conversation without jumping atop a table, pulling your pants down, and waggling your dick in the faces of those more brought up than yourself.

I’d say it’s a pretty good suggestion. You really seem to care about realism, and DayZ is full of that crap. Maybe you should try it out instead of bashing people who are trying to help you?

I agree with this…
I think it would make the most active have all crafting formulas in the game, and the few that plays just a few hours/day would end up falling behind in gear and crafting formulas. Creating a “unfair” advantage for the hardcore players. More then we have already! :slight_smile:
(And i’m fairly hardcore, playing around 12h/day, so it’s not that i’m trying to gimp the game.)