Thoughts: Survival vs. PvP & Direction of Development

The discussion has been had frequently about what Rust will become upon it’s exit from the testing phases (alpha and beta). I read an article where Garry said he wanted to encourage further focus on survival and reward players for working together more than just killing each other.

Currently this game is heavily focused on PvP due to the absence of other things to focus on. Right now it is fairly easy to establish yourself on a server within a day or two if you are able to avoid raiders. After that, it just comes down to building tall towers and metal doors and then you’re done. Start raiding, or planning new defense strategies. This leads to my first question.

QUESTION #1: What features are we expecting to be implemented to provide more “end game” options? Things to focus on more than just raiding your neighbor. (examples will be stone walls/buildings as a step between wood and metal)

After a 5 minute youtube tutorial, anyone with half a brain can survive in this game. The only REAL unavoidable danger are players, which will always force PvP as there is not a greater challenge than killing other players.

**QUESTION #2:**Now, I understand that zombies are going out sooner rather than later, but if surviving is pretty easy and after a week of gameplay, no one should die to a mob, will there be any additions to the difficulty of the environment? (examples will be significant weather changes or larger groups of mobs or roaming mobs or MOB spawns inside a radius where significant building has occurred)

Personally, I love the PK/Anti-PK potential of this game. Shoot, I don’t even mind dealing with certain penalties for being a PK’er. That brings me to my 3rd question:

QUESTION #3: What should be the end goal for Rust? Surviving, sure… but will rust be a PvP FPS game that is beautifully supported by a sandbox environment? Will it mold away from the PvP into a dynamic sandbox survival game with some PvP’esque encounters? Will it turn into a CIV VI where a server turns into a handful of teams that build cities and walls and have massive resource stores? (would this force siege weaponry?)

QUESTION #4: What do you want to see more of: Wider variety of building options or a wider variety of weaponry and defensive equipment?

Thanks everyone for reading and I hope you’ve enjoyed my first post!

I’ve been wanting to share this opinion for a while. I know it probably won’t be a popular one, but here we go regardless.

I don’t like the military aspects of the game. C4, M4’s, grenades, etc. It just seems a bit much to me. I love that you can make bows and revolvers out of wood. That is awesome and it branches from the simplistic survival aspect of the game. Now, I agree that shooting people with these military-grade weapons can be fun, but I’d like to see it toned down. The servers I join that have mass airdrops and things are just boring to me. If everyone has guns, kevlar, C4, etc. then it just turns into who can kill who first. So maybe a few more “out of the wild” type weapons. I’d like to see snares, traps, bolas, etc. introduced.

I’d also like to see weather and decay become a more dominant force. If you can put up metal walls and wooden barricades that last for weeks, you’re going to dominate the server and that’s no fun! So actual RUST and decay, I believe, should be accelerated. Accelerated to the point where you must repair the barricades daily and the walls weekly. Possibly even more often than that.

As for the zombie dilemma, I actually like the concept of zombies. I understand it’s sort of a rip from other titles but so what? Taking the ideas I’ve seen from other threads, indigenous tribes of sorts could be cool. We need some other sort of AI beside animals to threaten us.

Lastly, I’ll go on a bit of a tear. I haven’t thought about this part of the game enough to really organize by thoughts but please bear with me. I feel like the game is too easy right now. Crafting things should take more resources. If you gather 500 wood, which may take an hour at most, you’ve got yourself a decent little compound. Just hide it in the hills, gather for another hour or two and you’re on your way. Too easy. 10 wood for 1 plank? I think it should be closer to 20. 15 metal fragments for 1 quality metal? It should be nearer 40, especially if we plan on keeping military grade weapons. Along with the extra resources necessary, additional defensive items may be introduced. As I mentioned earlier; snares, traps, trip wires, etc. to reward and protect all of your hard work. I feel like the challenge should be in creating your base, not defending it. That’s just how I feel. I’d get a bit more quickly establishing a compound and then just looking for others to raid all day long. Then again, I’m not part of a large enough group to really experience that. I also believe that resources like stones and animal fat should have additional uses.

Really guys and gals, this game is what we want it to be. Obviously we aren’t in control of development, but we can establish whatever rules and guidelines we want in the game. They will surely listen to us. It doesn’t have to be another PvP skirmish. That’s not why I bought this game and I hope it isn’t why you did. It can end up being an experience that none of us have found in a video game yet. That’s what I’m looking for. Sorry for the long read.

Good thread!

1) - Character development and death penalty.
- Guilds & Guild clothing
- Shrines to add somekind of domination kind-of play, locations would change, winner guild would benefit a buff for some time, same guild cant win it twice in a row, some kind of penalty if they are not defended. Simply to prevent guild just taking it over and then idling until domination starts again on 3rd time.

2. - Weather effects to buildings to weaken structures in time. (EDIT: didnt know there was some decay feature already implemented. :slight_smile: http://forum.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1352449 )
- Rare but hard spawns, killing would only award decorative items. (i would say appearance would play big role on Rust.)

3. - I like the idea of Siege weaponry.
- Similar thing used in Path of Exile would work here, event servers. These would be announced before hand. A fresh server would open on determined date, everyone starts at the same time and time limit is given. “December 7, Last man standing 5 Hour event.” “Big Game Hunter, 48 hours, biggest amount of meat collected.” Just rough examples but the idea is there. :slight_smile:

4. - Round shapes on buildings

-I don’t think they’ve really commented on new “end game” features; only that “end game” will take longer to get to. They’ve stated that the top-tier weapons don’t really belong in the game and are just a placeholder, so expect them to take far longer to get in the future.

-They’ve stated that the zombies will be replaced with something more threatening and that they would like to do weather/season changes

-Rust will always be PvP focused; there is no real PvE and they haven’t stated any plans for it in the future

Honestly, after reading Garry’s AMA, it seems like he’s still in shock from the success of the game. He pretty much said “yeah, I’d like to see that too” to every suggestion but didn’t give many concrete details or a roadmap. I don’t think he was planning on the game blowing up so quickly and now he’s scrambling to come up with a plan for it. So it’s anyone’s guess what Rust is gonna look like a year from now.

The main problem with these games is the environment itself is never dangerous, leading to PvP being the only thing to worry about. There’s no incentive for players to work together other than “have a larger team than the other guys trying to kill me do”.

I mean, just take a quick glance at the mechanics of these games. Sure there’s a hunger meter, but food is common. Sure you can get “cold”, but all it really does is make you lose hunger faster. Oh, and when you run out of hunger you can still survive for like a minute regardless because you don’t die instantly. There have been times where I’ve survived starving just because I managed to cook food while I was slowly losing health.

And really, “Hunger” and “warmth” are the only two aspects I ever see used in ‘survival’ games.
Surely they can think of other things, like diseases, managing energy, managing sanity, etc.

There’s tons of potential for survival but all these games ever do is slap Hunger and hostile AI onto a PvP game.

I would like to see this game more to a survival type of game. like astrosloth already mentioned there are just too much military weapons in the game. It would be a lot better to let ppl craft spears, bows swords, traps, slingshots,… if the devs feel those assault rifles are rly needed they need to make it harder to get the blueprints and/or adjust the resources required to craft them.
The game needs more balancing (i know it’s alpha) sometimes all resources spawn on one part of the island and nothing on other parts of it, and it needs more sulfur/metal when a lot of ppl are online . and food is way to hard to get when you start on a server (with a lot of ppl online). Dying 10 times from starvation is just not fun.
You could bypass this by adding eatable plants that give less % on the food meter or something.

There will always be ppl who like pvp over survival and vice versa. The only real solution to this is survival servers and pvp servers.

One more thing: why can’t i use the bloody stone i start with to make a stone axe :smiley:

What if there was a really hard area to get to which had the next tier armor in it? Surrounded with ____ (whatever really hard mob they implement that isn’t a zombie… personally I think zombies are cool). The next tier armor could be “bulletproof vest”, “military grade helmet”, etc., that would provide some sort of end game but it would have to not be craftable in my opinion.

I disagree, as a well trained PvP group will inevitably be strong enough to gather the resources required to survive the harsh environment, either by collecting them or looting them off of dead players.

Similar to how someone naked might get owned easily by a pack of wolves but someone with kevlar and an M4 will just gun them down.

1 I’d like to see a more in depth building system as well as the ability to tailor a wider variety of equipment. I also would like to see some “boss mobs” that aren’t actually able to be killed. They don’t come out often, but they have a random path around the map (kinda like a Roomba) and destroy buildings and people in their path.

2 I think there should also be extreme whether conditions that force you to do certain things to survive. “winter” which could be anything from a day or a season and require constant use of clothes and have a “cold” meter as well similar to the hunger meter.

I can foresee things like floods that require moving to elevation and any equipment in a flooded area is destroyed. This of course would require the implementation of a swimming mechanic which may not be in the game, nor doable. Just an interesting idea.

I would like to see radiation require player made structures to contain it and those had to be maintained because they deteriorate at a faster rate. Have these “spots” move around as if wind was carrying the toxins around the map. This would force a more mobile approach to the game other than just stacking up inside your house for all time.

I’d like to see mobs that you can’t kill from range because they have armor or something on their front. It would require you to have a teammate. I’d also like to see faster mobs that you can’t run away from but maybe have a shorter tether.

I also REALLY like the idea of having seriously dangerous mobs spawn closer to high concentration of building structures that can attack and do damage to the buildings themselves. This will also help force people to keep things more reasonable unless they want to defend against mobs all the time.

3 I really think that Rust will see the most success as a PvP game (which it is), that is supported by an in depth sandbox environment. Allow servers to set rule sets to PvP or PvE or whatnot. But create a fantastic sandbox environment with above adequate weapons and balance and I think the game will take off from there. Just add pieces here and there that people can do to stay entertained after they’ve “hit the ceiling”. Once you have your base, what next?!?!?!

4 Lastly, I really think that having a more in depth crafting system for what you carry on your person is what will keep me invested in this game the most (other than the $20 I spent).

I’m not so sure about this, but this reminds me.

Have different maps that promote different playstyles or provide different challenges. Obviously there could be some overlap (winter season on the default map or radiation on an arctic map) but maps would weigh heavily in different directions.

For more PvP orientated players or just new players to the game, perhaps have a map that is like the map we have now, with a fairly safe environment.

I kinda like this idea, but with the caveat that the server wipes every Sunday, or there is a 7 day half-life on your character that it completely clears out after a week. This game is more than what this map is and there should be plenty of encouragement to get out and enjoy the full experience. Not just the sugar coated one.