Wallworm tools screwing up my smoothing groups

Okay, I’ve got a new problem.
Using wallworm, I imported in the pyro’s flare gun, but only the refference model. I had no trouble reshaping the gun to fit the bones before I had to go, so I saved and quit.
Now when I start back up, wallworm has loaded the refference model, and all the LOD’s and the collision mesh, without any instruction from me. Also, the imported gun is now at a 90 degree angle for some reason?
Now whenever I unhide the model, the smoothing groups on my gun fuck up and there’s no way to fix them without reloading. Can anyone help here? I really, really hate wallworm.


Edit: I looked into it further. Wall worm created three items called “LOD spheres”. I guess they’re supposed to be references for LOD distances, but when I unhide them they screw up my model.
I cant delete them either, as even if I delete the LOD helper, the LOD sphere remains visible in certain modes. Supposedly, the “Clear from sel” in the utilities roll-out is supposed to clear these helpers, but it’s not doing anything besides deleting the obnoxious text.

I would normally help you solve the issues that you speak of. But the tone of the comment is not of a nature to warrant my personal help.

Thanks for stopping by :v:

Try mariokart’s smd import maxscript?

Use 3ds max 2012

WallWorm never works for import/export. Just downgrade to Max 2012 and use the SMD tools for that.

As a matter of fact I work with Wall Worm the whole time and I can say it works completely fine, that is if you have the latest versions of 3DS Max (2014-2015 is optimal) and always the latest version updates.

What bothers me though is that you hate Wall Worm so much, indicating you used it before and didn’t appeal to your needs, which keeps me wondering why you still use it. I’m not willing for you to stop using it but it’s a weird, yet apparant contradiction.

On top of that, you genuinly ignored the potential aid that Shawn might have given you. If you had apologised, knowing him well he would have definitly helped you out and you would now be enjoying all of the great benefits WW has to offer. Benefits which are far more advanced than any of the older, redunant importers that have buggy functions, next-to-no management for the LODS which you seems to have problems with. You are potentially taking the advice of someone who asks you to downgrade to a version that is not supported by AutoDESK anymore, meaning you are essentially regressing to something less functional.

All of that is ultimately your choice. It’s your choice to ignore a professional coder that has assisted some of the greatest artists of the Source Engine (including Robert Briscoe, someone who uses the Source Engine like none of us could ever do), it’s your choice to regress to a workflow that is completely outdated, and it’s your choice to have far less evident tools and a harder/longer time getting your work done with outdated software.

Just a handful of things WWMT has achieved so far:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AnsuVfbB9RQ/U7N-xWzCTaI/AAAAAAAAB-o/zVAp5VeGZeo/s1152/te_cara_jimonionsedit_v10000.jpg (JimOnions uses Wall Worm, along with many other great artists. He said that he couldn’t work without WW)
http://files.gamebanana.com/img/ss/maps/539633944d4e3.jpg (My own work)

All I can say is that if you want to advance more quickly, keep an open mind and try to allow people their advice to come to you, instead of ignoring it beforehand, it’ll help you out a loooot faster.

The issue he’s having is that wallworm is trying to automate too much and causes issues with stuff.

and why would you need lod support, you just import the lod smds seperately. :v

and cannonfodder’s importer works just fine dunno what you mean by buggy functions and whatnot.

LOL kiss his ass much? From what Ive seen 90% of people that post about model import or export probz tend to resinate from wallworm’s fuckup

So suggesting that someone uses a version that is confirmed working, doesn’t cause problems, and something that is widely used amongst the frequenters here is just lazy advice we’re giving? You make it sound like downgrading to Max is going to be hell on earth for him. Does anybody even rely so heavily on the small updates to Max each year that they just absolutely can’t work with Source models unless they have the absolute latest version of Max?

If anything, isn’t it more functional granted that nobody here ever really complains about needing help or having issues while using 3ds max 2012?

wow :v: it almost sounds like your wallworms alt or something.
I don’t have anything personal against the dude. I’m just annoyed that his software automated too much and ruined a large chunk of my model, forcing me to go back to a previous back up and nulling a few hours worth of work.

I don’t really care about the whole “weh you’re mean to my software so im not gonna help u” stuff, it’s just bad user support really. Definitely not gonna change my mind about the software at all with the whole “I COULD help you if you’re a little nicer” approach :v:

[editline]4th September 2014[/editline]

Exactly. I specified for the importer not to load any LOD’s, which worked fine. But after I had reloaded the save, it imported the LOD’s, the collision meshes and all the helpers that screwed up the model. It just seems like a flaw you shouldn’t pass by so easily just because of one users “attitude”.

Either way I’m still gonna move to 2012 3ds max for importing and exporting now, seems like the most logical option.

[editline]4th September 2014[/editline]

Script doesn’t seem to work for me, keeps generating an “Error SMD Not Compatible with this Script” message.

3DS Max 2012 was not necessarly bad, I have been using it for a long time, but it definitly is a downgrade over 2014 or 2015. I mean you can’t create extra faces without turning into the viewport or the creation gets cancelled, as well as the viewport drivers being inferior (they are easily 5-6 times faster in 2015 and crazy hell more enjoyable, although that may be of personal taste).

If later in life you pursue the same childish attitude, like I’m gonna ask anyone my fucking way how I need help and all will bow down to my vulgarish mouth, then I’m afraid you won’t come far.

Especially generalising Shawn and Wall Worm as being “bad user support really” is the most irrelevant and unplaced remark one could ever do. It would be indeed be impossible for you to have anything personal against “the guy”, because your attitude prohibits you from seeing his qualities. If there is anyone caring as much as he can for his userbase, it would be Shawn. There’s no point arguing against a wall of stones, stones which have no ears.

Just use wunderboy’s plugins for max once 2012 is installing (assuming that wasn’t already the plan).

You should calm down. Wallworm entered the thread and basically said “oh, wow, you’re being pretty rude,” and moved on. Even he didn’t stay here to complain like that. There’s no need for you to remain here only to make a fuss about him having his own way of doing things. This field is pretty much everybody learning their own workflow and developing their own preferences for how they do this. Does it really matter if he doesn’t prefer the same tools or scripts you do, or that his opinion of them is different? Instead of fighting about it, why not just relax and move on?

Ah okay, I was using 2014 for the script. I’ll try later with 2012.


Yes, because my preferences and my opinion are law, and you shall bow down to them! :v: /sarcasm

But on a serious note though, CaptainBigButt’s right on this matter. People will have their own preferences and opinions regarding certain things when it comes to working with 3DS Max plugins, and you trying to white-knight the situation won’t do anything but make you seem like a brown-noser. Even the creator of wallworm himself has A) pretty much refused to give any help based on the ‘tone’ the OP had and B) pretty much left the thread after that post, so I really don’t think arguing about wallworm’s tools will do anything to help change the OP’s mind. Quite honestly, I’ve seen more people around here that have openly complained about wallworm’s tools than I’ve seen people that have openly complained about wunderboy’s plugins. Wallworm’s tools aren’t for everyone, and suggesting that someone uses an earlier version of 3DS Max to use wunderboy’s plugins won’t do any harm.

If Wunderboy’s tools work best for you, use them. I collaborated a good amount with Neil during the last couple of years he was still working on them and have great respect for him and his tools.

For the best results with Wall Worm, you will need a few things:

1) Ability to realize it doesn’t work exactly like the old plugins for setting up your models and materials.
2) Often, the newer versions of Max work better.
3) Almost all versions of Max should have the latest Service Pack installed. There are some versions of Max (like 2012, 2013 and 2014) that simply will not work correctly with WW unless you install the latest service packs.

The next set of tips are these:

Importing Into Max

1) For using the SMD Importer to work as most users will expect, turn off ALL of the general options.
2) When importing a QC where you don’t want LODs, check the Skip LODs options.
3) If you want to import a standalone SMD (and not a whole QC) change the File Type from QC to SMD in the import file dialog.

Exporting Into Source

1) Wall Worm’s SMD Exporter supports using either Smoothing Groups or Explicit Normals. Use Explicit Normals if you brought the model in via FBX/Maya or if you add an Edit Normals Modifier.
2) WW uses the Material Name and NOT the diffuse bitmap for the SMD exporter’s designation of face materials.
3) In a classical model setup, turn OFF Rotate Origin and Use Local Origin as World Origin. Only use the Rotate Origin and Local Origin if you have experimented and read the docs and understand what they are for.
4) Your model’s XForm should always be reset. Do not scale at the object level… but if you do, remember to reset the XForm.


I have helped countless people over the years with various levels of Max/Source knowledge. This set of tips covers solving 95% of all problems that are brought to my attention. Most problems that users face with WW are solved very easily. But I am far more prone to help when the same respect I have shown all of this community is reciprocated.

When there is a problem in something that WW is doing, email me. If there is actually a bug, I will fix it. If there is just a confusion, I will answer questions. With a little education, you will find that the SMD Exporter works just fine. All things in WW are not automated as insinuated above. They are only as automated as you want them to be.

As for the importer code in WW, it started, ironically, from MarioKart64. The code posted above was donated to WW. I’ve adapted it to fit inside WW. And the errors mentioned with that code above were fixed in the WW version, as well as various problems from skin problems in Max 2014-2015. Posting it here as an alternative to WW shows, again, a lack of understanding about WW.

Yes, there is always room to improve anything (like WW). Just like anyone else, I’ve used programs that yielded unexpected results. My first recourse is to go to the documentation, then the developer, if I am not getting the result I want. Your best place for a helpful answer to using WW is over on the WW forums. You’ll get an answer or a bug fix.

Asking questions here will likely result in answers from people who do not necessarily understand how WW works.

Most people don’t dislike wallworm, in fact they love it for things like map meshes and things that require automation.

On the other hand a lot of people find wallworm unveildly to use for stuff like normal model work. Because the benefits you get from wallworm fall way there and get outweighted by some issues wallworm has over the old relatively simple importer and exporters.

Yeah, I can see where most of these issues can keep arising from. Since a lot of them stem from the minor differences between the ol systems and wallworm. Which leads people who are used to how the old things work particularly confused.

I’ve been trying to install 2012 3Ds max so I can use the smd exporter, but it wont install. It gives an error at the last stage that just says “3ds max 2012 has failed to install”. Anyone got any solutions to that?

Earlier versions of the WW SMD Exporter had problems with bone orientation not aligning with model orientation. This was partly due to my own confusion, at the time when starting the tool, with how Source uses and compiles $staticprop differently from non $staticprop. Since a large percentage of my focus was turning Max into a Source level editor, getting the static meshes right was paramount to me.

In time, as more people sent me problem files, and as I decided to add support for CAT and Biped, I tackled these Skin problems. At this point, those issues are now long gone. The main thing, especially for skinned meshes, is to not use the Rotated Model AND NOT SCALING the mesh/bones. The Rotated Model option is mainly for $staticprop models so that they can appear in Max as they will in Hammer with 0 rotation when not rotated and the VMF exporter doesn’t have to calculate a rotation.

I have not had a single issue exporting skinned meshes for quite some time. If you do have any example files where the current WW SMD Exporter fails, send it my way and I will find the answer. I do not believe that there has been any issue with the SMD Exporter for quite some time even for traditional work flows. The importer, however, is another story, as there are some things that would take more of my time than I’m willing to dish out. For staticprop and simple reskinning, the importer should work fine for most cases. Importing a complete character and then re-exporting it is never straightforward and will take extra effort to make it viable.

Again, I’m not against the older plugins. They are still supported inside the wallworm toolkit as options for the SMD Exporter used in WWMT. But they are missing features that the WW SMD exporter does have, such as arbitrary mapping channels and Explicit Normals. So if you need support for those, you’ll need to use the WW smd exporter. If you don’t need them and prefer the older exporters, use the older ones. What matters most to me personally is that users come to me with issues so that I can address them instead of bashing WW because that can often turn others off to something I’ve spent far more time than I should sharing with the community–and supporting. It is disturbing that I will get a message from someone who says that they heard WW can’t do A or B especially when A and B may have worked fine for the last year or so.

I’m still having trouble with your software either way. I got the importer working fine, but bones are borked.

I’m not saying your scripts are bad, or obsolete, I’m just saying for the stuff I need to do (rigging weapons and such) I’ve had an easier time with different scripts besides wall worm.