What IMHO is preventing Rust to be awesome

In one sentence: the object destruction mechanism.

Why? Because it makes people build their bases not thinking of how effectively they may be defended but how effectively they may prevent or at least make it hard for their stuff to be looted.
On my server (opened recently) you can now see those huge towers everywhere and guess what? The server that some days ago ran like a rocket (absolutely no lag) is now lagging as hell as soon as there is more than 15 people connected simultaneously. The funny thing is that C4 in not even craftable on this server and I hardly dare imagine how the structures look like on C4 craftable servers.

Now, I may be mistaken but I really think that devs did not have that in mind when they implemented this mechanism. I think that this way of playing has only negative aspects:

  • Makes the server lag.
  • Building metal door everywhere, useless spaces and mazes is absolutely not fun, at least for me (or it is?)
  • Makes us create horrible structures.
  • As I said before, makes strategically defendable bases useless.
  • Makes survival structures like spikes or barricades almost useless (people usually raid your base when you’re not in it). In fact, who is still building them?

I really hope that something will be done about that when the “property” system will be implemented.
For example, wouldn’t it be awesome if people could damage your base only and only if you are connected to the server (so that you could be able to defend it and we would finally think structures as real shelter and not only as more or less secured “stuff storages”). This could open the way to new ideas such as alarm system, NPC guards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that everybody should make his own base like he wants to, I’m not arguing about this but just about the way the possibly of building that Rust is offering us is used.
For me the game has the potential to offer so much more than it currently does.

What do you guys think about it?

The idea of a property system is good but the idea of you house can only be damaged when you are online is not what rust is intending to be
Property system could be used to repair you broken houses and delete pillars etc.

To be honest, from what I could’ve read not even the dev have a clear idea of what Rust is intended to be and I highly doubt that their “base” idea is that sort of super-mazy-door-everywhere-shapeless structures that can be seen everywhere.
However, maybe I’m wrong and it is the very way they see it and in this case I would have made a mistake buying this game.
I wanted a sandbox in which we could strategically build a base… honestly, look at the topic like “the perfect design”, it’s all about your base not being blown. Not well defended, not impregnable, nor secure but just not blown. Is the core of this game is all about? To build bases that cannot be blown? Maybe I’m too old to understand the fun in that then.

It’s an idea about how to make the game easier based on how it is now for causal gamers. He have a valid point that its to hard for those kinds of players. if this game is going to hit it must flirt with both casual and hardcore players. But as I can see it, they must heavily reduce the sulfur in the game and make it harder to farm supply but alot easier to defend your supply and focus the raiding part of the game to groups of players who fight eachother. If they can balance the supply ratio I wanna se that explosive weapons must be saved for raiding camps and not to raid others houses unless they are stupid to harvest more then the cost to break in and steal it.
As it is now your get alot of iron and sulfur and little rock from “farming rocks” It should be rich on stone, medium on iron and low on sulfur.

It’s not even that. Casual has nothing to do with it. It’s that one of the whole selling points of Rust is that it’s a realistic survival game. And… building crazy mazes with dozens of metal doors is not at all realistic.

Honestly, one potential (very simple) solution would be to prevent C4 from taking down walls, I think, or at least not without extreme effort. Then you, as a base designer, can control the flow of breaches, and can plan accordingly. It’s like medieval castle design: castle designers knew that gates were weak points, and responded accordingly. So did attackers. You had a lot more concentric circles and layers of walls than ye olde door maze that you get in Rust. Much more realistic and believable, IMO.

And, of course, there’s the simple fact that destroying bases is way too easy at the moment. It doesn’t take nearly long enough to start getting regular C4, and you can get to a point where it’s easy to churn it out. Making raiding a base a serious commitment in time and resources would make believable defenses a lot more common, since you wouldn’t have to worry about some yahoo blowing down three of your walls because he had some spare C4 and was bored.

I think I understand what you’re saying. If I do then I agree. Creating a maze filled structure should not be the ONLY effective way to trying to secure your stuff(though either way it would be a smart choice). As my thread stated earlier, there is just a massive imbalance between a raider and a defender. Almost everything leans toward the raider.

I completely disagree with preventing your base from being blown up while offline though. That wouldn’t be needed if settlers had effective defensive tools to make use of. This could range from traps, tamed pets, safes, etc. Anything that makes raiding more of a hassle.

Play to crush is too easily accomplished in this game. It’s going to greatly hold its potential back.

edit: Higher tier structures could also help with this. Of course it would be VERY time consuming, but makes play to crush more difficult for endgame.

This is precisely my point. Nothing about what I said has to do with casuality or difficulty of the game.
This is all about building our base cleverly, strategically, and especially realistically.
It’s enough to go on whatever server and look around, every base is built about the same template, just clone of what is supposed to be the place in which your loot is the most safe. For me this is a failure, it should not be this way.

@AceTheFlame Understructible elements while offline was just an idea among others, it has drawbacks but would favor the combat/raiding of occupied and in other world defendable bases. Then the structures like spikes, watch towers etc. would finally be useful and funny to build.

I realy like the idea that you never logg out and are constant “online” but something must be done to help casual players to survive. But those small shelters maybe should be burgler proof when offline but to be able to progress into the game you must turn that building and the crafting recepie in to be able to progress in crafting and building. Just some early protection for newcommers but not worth staying on since you will be locked out from most of the game.
EDIT: Not loose the shelter but to loose the protection is has for the chance to progress into the game.

Time-locked servers might be an interesting experiment. I’m thinking essentially a server that’s only operational on weekday evenings and on weekends, when the majority of players are either relaxing after work or playing on their days off. Base damage would be enabled during this period but disabled during the hours that the majority of people within that timezone are either at work or asleep. The game is still playable during other hours but damage to structures is disabled.

I’m not sure how well it would work but I’d love to try it out

and another whine thread…

nobody forces you to build a maze or crazy big tower. This is a sandbox game, play it like you want and let others play it like they want. If they like building a maze, let them.
I for mysef like building crazy houses. So i started building a tower at start. improved it day by day and it grows. Was raided 3 times now and lost not one worthfull item. People that raided me where very angry on me, because they wastet more than 40 c4 to find nothing than 2 sets of defence gear ( m4+ shotgun+ full KEvlar, Medpacks. food and ammo) that where placed in that area.
On the other hand i raided a small wood house using 3 c4, and around 20 wood planks to break into their loot room, found explosives, around 4000 Metal Pieces and 500 Wood planks, Full Kevlars, Weapons, 7 pieces of C4 and a lot of more.
My second base was fully build out of metal, 4 levels high and a a square of 9 foundations (3x3). Surrounded by Foundations with pillars to make it impossible to place new foundations directly on a wall. 30+ doors where protecting this base and it was completly raided. They used more than 60 c4 to get into the base and of course because that was only a oupost they found a handfull of weapons,metal and wood but nothing really worthfull (like gunpowder, explosives or c4).
So i guess its better to use your ressources instead of storing them and got raided one day

Congrats, you found a hacker base, good for you! I assume you threw away all those goodies to make the game more balanced?

About the thread in general: **Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man.
**

Hint: disperse your assets amongst a number of small innocuous holds, and you will almost never be raided, and unlikely loss of one will not be devastating

As has been said a million times on this forum already “The game is in Alpha.” Stating your concerns about the direction of gameplay isn’t “whining”, it’s trying to provide feedback so that the final form of the game makes you feel like you got your money’s worth. It is no different to say that you have a problem with how easy it is to raid a base right now than it it is to say that you wish they had more guns or that foundations could be stepped so you can build on a slope or “Why can’t I build on top of rock when its a sturdier foundation than dirt?”.

All of that aside, the OP wasn’t saying that other people shouldn’t be ALLOWED to build mazes. His point was that for players who want to be able to gather enough resources to do something with, it is incumbent upon them to build such a maze so that their resources can reside in a modicum of safety while they are offline. There will always be an advantage to being the aggressor in a game like this (because you only need to be available during one particular moment when noone is online, whereas the defender needs to be available 24 hours a day to effectively defend) however many people play this sort of a game in order to build something. Obviously I have my issues any time I’m raided but I’ve been raided while online and off and while I didn’t exactly find facing 4 well-armed opponents in kevlar with whatever I could grab out of the nearest crate to be fun it certainly felt a lot more fair than logging in to find my base has been entirely cleared out because the aggressors had no incentive not to just keep coming back.

Don’t be fucking stupid.

No, no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to build a maze. No one holds a gun to your head and forces you to build anything at all.

No one ‘forces’ you to collect anything or build anything or even move around the map or play the game itself, but it’s still necessary if you actually want to survive and enjoy the game.

Unfortunately the OP is right.

Actually everyone is building only mazes and towers just because they are the most (the only?) effective way to defend the resources that a player has earned with his sweat…

As stated somewhere before in this topic, the defense MUST be improved…traps, pets and “guardians” sounds like a good idea, even the camouflage could help because currently the buildings are just too easy to spot… maybe introducing a digging “system” (Minecraft-like) could help balancing this aspect

I still maintain that making C4 very rare would be the simplest answer, at least right now. Not disabled… just rare. Like the rest of the modern weapons should be. Playing on modded servers with their spawn rates turned down has reinforced to me that this is a good idea, since people actually tend to build sane, realistic bases on those servers. Well… once they realize that the crazy-ass maze and House of a Thousand Doors layout is no longer necessary. It sometimes takes a while to get over the trauma.

Just wait. I’m pretty sure the C4 is a placeholder for something far less effective, obtainable, and reliable.

I’m hoping the future of explosives eventually means that you will have to experiment with different items to see what kind of concoction you get, good or bad. Whether or not it accidentally blows up your own house is for you to find out.

It is on my server (you can have C4 only and very rarely from airdrops) and I can only confirm it is far far better. Nevertheless people (me included) are building this way, the fact is that even if the odds of being raided are drastically reduced, nobody is willing to risk to loose hours and hours of play time (not everybody has unlimited free time or can play every evening, this aspect must be taken into account).
As someone said in a post above, nobody is forcing you to build like that but it is clearly a necessity if you want to compete, even barely, with the other players on the server.
The fact of doing things you dislike in order to be a competitive is never a good thing in a game.

On rare c4 servers raiding is impossible, and the point of the game is survive. When raiding is impossible surviving is very easy. Ruins point of game.

Realistically, if I was plopped into this situation… I was live as far away from everyone else as possible, get some food, and sit in my one by one shack a 30 minute run from everust.

Now would this be fun? No but it’d be the ultimate survival.

Forget realism, ultimate realism isn’t fun as demonstrated. What’s fun is being clever and seeing how long you can keep your stuff before someone outsmarts you or makes more c4 than you have doors. Never put all your stuff in one base. Build 5-6 bases. When they raid you, they take 20% of your stuff. Wooohoo?

I love raiding, but I agree with some of the OP points. I came up with a few rough ideas that could help new players and still keep PvP basically the same.

New Players - A safety period where new players can build small structures (i.e. shacks and single story (4x4 max?) wood structures). These structures can not be attacked for a period of time, 7 days for example. After that time expires the player is removed from the safety period and his structures can be attacked as normal. This allows new players, especially solo players, time to get started and not worry about having their door blown off. This would also allow PvP to stay unchanged, so you can still get whacked gathering wood.

Group Structures - I would love to see structures that can only be built by groups of players coming together. Something like a small group of buildings or a wood fort that can be defended. This might make people want to join together to create these top level structures.

C4 - The flaw I find with C4 is that it’s basically only good against other player structures and too easy to find in air drops. I would love to see more secure doors in abandoned towns, radiated military bases, bunkers, etc. These would require C4 to gain access allowing players to find top level gear. Also making top gear, mostly weapons, more rare in loot and air drops. I know the devs are changing weapons and armor so I’m waiting to see what happens. An alternative would be a top level crafting bench that could be found in the world , but is uncraftable by players. So you’d have to find a machine shop, blow open a gun store vault, military base, etc. Again making harder to get top level gear.

Ammo - IMHO most ammo is too easy to make, ammo should be rare/hard to create so that you have to think about every shot fired.

IMO, the game is obviously not ready yet! And they need us to tell what we find good or bad about the game. So, let’s say clearly: rethink the buildings.

I’m an architect, and maybe because of that the first time that i saw a 20 stories tower thought… what the hell, what happens if a blow up with C4 a pillar? All the fucking tower should fall!! But suddenly i discovered that NO, pillars can’t be blown away…

As easy as that. Make pillars able to be blown. But not only blown!! (I also think c4 should be WAY less accesible). Make pillars and walls able to being attack! Put some siege weapons in the game. Let people build with stone… Let people build underground!!!

But, again… why should we do bases and defend’em??

AHHHHHHH THAT’S THE POINT!!!

Whenever someones LEAVES the server, whatever they are wearing GOES AWAY!!! So, at any given moment, in a base/house there only the things that a character cannot carry. Well… take that feature away. That whenever a character leaves the game, they have to leave everything in a box!

THAT would be awesome. At any given moment EVERYTHING IS AVAILABLE!!

[editline]24th January 2014[/editline]

Never thougth about group structures, but guy… that idea is fucking amazing :wink: