What is so bad about C4?

I see multiple threads and people complaining that C4 is too powerful and they are sick of being raided… but I honestly don’t understand why.

To craft Two x C4 to break down a **single wall **you need the following components. (Plus actually having found explosives from an air drop to even learn how to craft)

2 Flares ( found in crates )
10 Leather ( a couple bear kills )
700 Gun Powder (1400 Charcoal & 1400 Sulfur)
70 Low Grade Fuel
150 Sulfur
600 Metal Fragments

To make all that you need the following:

516 Sulfur Ore
100 Metal Ore
140 Animal Fat
70 Cloth
400~ Wood

Which means you have to farm the following:

30 to 40 animals for Leather, Cloth and Animal Fat (1 to 2 hours + what ever ammo you needed to kill them)
Find 2 wood stacks (the easiest part)
Find 2 Flares in Crates (time depends on your luck)
Mine 60+ Rock Nodes (assuming you have an endless supply of nodes, that’s at least 45 seconds per node to run and hack away at it… which is about 45 minutes of solid metal ore farming)… and in reality it will take much longer.

Plus you have the furnace time to actually make all these mats.

So now let us look at what it actually takes to defend against 2 x C4

Building more than a single wall that separates the raiders from your loot. A single wall consists of 4 wood planks, or 40 wood, which is less than half of a wood node.

So what is the real issue?

Players making bases where a single wall separates the raiders from their loot. Think of a base design that takes 2 walls, 3 walls, 4 walls… hell 10 walls to get to your loot.

Thank you for your time and please don’t make C4 any harder to craft than it already is.

I really used to like the idea of a wooden wall taking 1 c4. If you wanted the extra defence (for a wooden structure), you would have to spam either metal windows or metal doors. I don’t really feel at risk anymore, it’s really easy to make a structure that costs 10 or more c4 to fully raid. I feel there should be something inbetween - wood takes 1 c4, new ‘stone’ walls take 2 c4, and metal takes 4 c4, something like that :stuck_out_tongue:

The issue is that those materials are cakewalk for a 6-10 man group to farm. Three days after our last wipe a 6 man group had over 50+ explosives. Server population went from 40-50 to 10 in less than a week.

It is way too easy to get. Period.

Should we punish the individual because group vs. group warfare exists?

Or should we encourage the individuals to seek refuge in numbers?

Any 6 man group who is dedicated enough to farm 50 x C4 in 3 days will be dedicated enough to farm 50 x C4 even if it took 6 days, or 12 days.

The only persons that Durability and additional mineral sinks really hurt are the people not running in huge groups.

I think walls should take more C4, giving raiders more of a reason to go for the doors instead.

That way you could plan your defense easier knowing what route they would have to take.

My issue with it is currently the only defense against C4 is to build huge minecraft like bases just to not get raided as soon as you log off. I would be all for requiring more c4 to go through walls and adding more defenses and even limiting the size of bases (although I’m sure I’m the minority on that last one).

The real issue is that while you’re correct, it may take some time to gather the mats for a solo player. A group of 2-3 dudes can walk into my base (after gathering for 2-3 hours) and undo all the the building I did that took 2-3 days as well as the stuff I’ve crafted/farmed for over a week and while I’m offline I can’t do shit about it. Now, if I had some sort of base defenses then I’d sing a different tune. I have no problem with someone raiding my base while I’m online and can try to defend it, but offline with no base defenses leaves me only one choice…a suicide base.

Yeah, but when groups have 50 c4 then they don’t think twice about blowing though a base for grins. Now I don’t have enough stuff to make it worth the c4 they use, but it doesn’t seem to matter to them because the cost is negligible. Without an in game clan system im stuck with my 2 or 3 RL friends and there is nothing we can do to avoid constant base destruction. At this point we have become nomads not making anything we dont currently need which gets old quick. I think this game could be much greater if you had some for of city building or terrain control. Make walls that can constantly be reinforced to increase their strength (thicker and taller walls)

Post sounds whiny I know, and the threat of losing your stuff is what makes it fun but there has to be something to slow down a raiding group from amassing huge stockpiles of explosives and raiding every building on the map. I actually think it would be better if you could destroy wood walls and wood doorways with axes just make it take alot of hits.

Believe it or not there are those that stay online doing just that, building C4. Which they then use to raid a base and get more C4.

Anyone with an actual job or life is at the mercy of those that have nothing else to do but raid.
Raids get even worse when as in my case some stranger not only blows 4 metal door, kills you, takes everything and then replaces your doors with his. All because he can. This was not done by someone with a grudge, it’s just how low some players are.

It kinda makes bases completely pointless.

Because I’ve never had someone say:
“I’d raid you if it weren’t so damn expensive!” They just all of a sudden drop C4. And you’re assuming most of it was farmed, it could have just been farmed from people, or from other bases.

I’ve had a 1 found foundation base raided daily. All my effort, gone every single time. The only defense I’ve ever found was building a 5 story 8 foundation home that was basically a maze with various starewells and almost every room doored.

Also because if you don’t actually get access, there’s no relationation. You will just get raided and raided, while you’re not able to raid back.

I have played in a big group on a server that had 50+ people constantly and we were just one group of players who had a mega base that would have taken 100 x C4 to get into the loot room. (I would say ROOMS because it was all separated out).

It generally took 7+ people farming for an entire day to make ~45 x C4 … which depending on the base you choose to raid it could take under 10 x C4 to get into the loot room or we would simply choose not to raid it because it was actually well built.

I would say most of the PvP action on this high populated server was out in the field fighting for resources.

I also play on a smaller server with about 10 tops (and growing slowly) and any base that would take more than 3 walls to blow is skipped over because we simply don’t have enough C4 farmed up to even attempt to raid it.

Which brings me back to my point… the issue is people build bases that have poor designs and only a few C4 brings them down.

Any base that would take 10+ C4 to raid you probably wouldn’t get the resources back that it took to raid it so its either skipped over… or just raided because you were at war with that person anyway.

The real problem is that people want to be safe… that’s why they don’t want C4… When everybody will be and feel safe, this game will become boring.

No one should be safe in this game, stop pilling stuff in crate and use it instead…

Me I will do the opposit and limit the base size so anybody, even big clan, will not be safe from a raid… and solo and small player group will also have the possibility to raid.

That’s my point. If building a base that required more resources to raid than you have it would prevent people from destroying it then there would be some safety. Of course you piss someone off all bets are off. But the way it turns out most of the time is that 10 c4 be damned they bust up your place take your 20 leather and 37 chicken strips along with you spare P250 and disappear. Thats why the idea of player cities / clans appeal. Because a large city would have people online at all times and defenders adds alot more risk to a raid aside from just the material expense.

It’s a cakewalk for a duo to get those materials, let alone a 6-10 man group lol.

Rust is the easiest sandbox to progress and excel in of any sandbox ever developed. Not sure why anyone would think it is difficult, as there is little to no challenge involved.

Stop putting all your eggs in one basket. A group can get mats to raid one fortified place, but not all of them. If you’re playing solo, well, find friends and spread loot around houses. If you’re determined to play solo, many small bases, hidden.

play on limited servers =]

OP, you forget to remember that two c4 can turn into 6 if you get lucky. In most cases you go even when you use c4. For example, 6 guys go around killing nakeds (and others) Who are farming resources. Instead of taking the time to farm them yourself, you just killed some guy in 10 seconds while playing to have fun. You just gained 20 metal rocks (uncooked metal), sulfur, a buncha wood, and maybe even a few guns. This all comes from just having fun.

By the time they use the C4 on a building they likely have found a good chunk of material off other players. When they knock that buildings wall down and loot the crafting area (face it, most players are dumb and store all their crafting material together) they could walk out with 250 metal rocks (uncooked), 250 sulphur rocks (again uncooked), leather, cloth, animal fat, and even often explosives or c4. You spend a little c4 that you may have found from an air drop and you gain far more. That’s the problem.

Now when most users grow a brain and use a building that requires a ton of c4 (or a lot of luck) to get to your good loot then there’s good balance. But as it is, most dont. I have built large structures and scattered my items around the house. I have had someone come in and knock down 6 doors to try and loot all my stuff but miss side rooms where I stuck most of my metal and sulphur. Combine the destruction people cause with them being frustrated that they couldn’t find your stuff, they could then grief you. Knock down your stairs and put a ceiling up. Replace your doors with their own. Stuff like that.

It’s not as cut and dry as ‘a wall costs 40 wood. C4 costs hours of grind’. Because that grind can often be negated by murdering every rock wielding newby in sight for easy components.

EDIT: Also would like to note, everytime someones looted my homes and come out empty handed because they hit all my fake loot rooms, they have gone through and put up doors / crates -everywhere-. While not related to the OP, it’s frustrating and a small rant of mine xP. Not fun to come home from work, load up rust, and find 30+ large crates in -every- doorway (+ a wooden door). I stopped playing on instacraft servers because of this.

Everybody is a rock wielding noob at some point. You either learn how to build and survive or you don’t. Survival of the fittest… this is Rust.

I never said this was a bad thing. I only said that one can farm the components off of the rock wielding newbies. It’s a lot more fun that way too.