Why are new players so against firearms?

Why are new players so against firearms? You have just as much of an ability to craft them as everyone else. Your M4 will do just as much damage as anyone else. I do not see why this is considered such a hinderance when it is available to everyone in the game.

Even if the guns are removed we will still KOS players with a Bow, or a hatchet, or even a rock if that is what it comes down to. As long as there is player damage players are going to attack each other continually to fight for territory. That is unless you remove all weapons from the game. :stuck_out_tongue:

People are against them because you can go from a rock wielding caveman to a kevlar wearing M4 wielding assassin in under an hour, Military weapons should be rare as fuck and not craftable by bashing rocks with a stone hatchet.

How would that stop KOS any less though? Is it the fact that the weapons are modern that bothers you or the ability hit long range? I do not see how removing them or changing them would make any bit of difference. If I have to blast someone single shot with a homemade shotgun then so be it.

Personally I do not care about bandits since I am pretty good at hiding and avoiding them, it is purely the fact that you can manufacture modern and highly technical weapons and explosives using crap you can find in your garden. I am an advocate of putting blackpower weapons in the game, since anyone can make one in an afternoon if they know how, really simple. You can have a flintlock rifle for long range, a pistol for short and a blunderbuss for a shotgun type weapon. They should be powerful but slow to reload, meaning no more spray and pray.

THANK YOU, someone with some goddamn logic and common sense.

Don’t you think that would slow down the gameplay though in a negative way? I certainly would not mind having to put more effort into building parts and tools to craft high end weaponry but it feels like making every ranged weapon a single shot mechanism will just make the game dull and lackluster.

If the M4 had a unique look to it and required more parts would you still be okay with the way it works or would the automatic fire still be a problem for you? I ask because this game is centered entirely around weaponization and explosive/entry crafting, so in my opinion if you take that away you have basically gutted the game and it now becomes a minecraft clone.

If the M4 was difficult or time consuming to craft that would be fine, here is what I propose.

Tier 1: Hatchet, Bow and Arrow. Real primitive weapons but one which anybody nowdays could make with a bit of incentive and next to no training.

Tier 2: Black powder weapons, not very accurate and slow to reload but they should hit much harder than Tier 1. You can have a Musket (Rifle) for long range, pistol and a Blunderbuss (shotgun).

Tier 3: Bolt action Rifle ALA Lee Enfield or Mosin Nagant, Double barrel shotgun and 6 shot revolver. With appropriate reload times and damage this will be the most common weapons for mid level players.

Tier 4: M4, Semi automatic pistol and Pump action shotgun. This is what should take a long time to make and should be quite rare unless you work in groups or are good at hiding your location, you should not have a naked man holding a rock running around with these weapons that he made with his own hands in only a few hours, you should need to manufacture various tools and presses first.

The game is still in alpha. In order to ensure all items are being tested they need to be easy to obtain.

As a bandit, in a bandit squad, I think modern weapons should be removed, they are too easy and don’t make sense in the current state of the game, homemade weapons are much cooler, IMO a Metal bow and arrow should become the new M4, remove kevlar too, obvs

This is pretty close to the way the structure is now although faster to produce. As utilitron mentioned the faster craft times are on purpose for testing of the items. The final game build will take much more progression to obtain the same weapons and they most likely will be airdrop only, giving even more incentive to gear up and fight for elite drops. I still do not see why it is such a problem for new players other than the fact that they have yet to craft such weapons.

[editline]17th December 2013[/editline]

Do you mean they don’t make sense because of the complexity of the gun? As I asked before if there was a homemade rifle with the same characteristics would you then find it okay or is it the fact that it “shoots fast”? I really do not see the issue. Kevlar can literally be renamed to plate armor, problem solved on that end.

The technical aspects of firearms manufacture is not that big a deal.

There are many tribesmen and merchants in the Afganistan/Pakistan area that make many modern firearms with nothing other then a basic forge, anvil and metalworking tools.

It’s not hard to make a firearm, even a modern one. The difficult lies in the tolerances.

Modern firearms are manufactured to an extremely high tolerance. The parts fit exactly and precisely. It takes a high degree of skill and talent to meet those exacting standards without high tech tools. I guarantee you that any modern firearm made in the last 10 years is more accurate then your average shooter. Today if you put the sites on a target and exercise the proper skill and talent you WILL hit the target 99% of the time. With the old smoothbore musket if the target wasn’t within about 150 yards you were almost guaranteed to miss.

IMHO the reason that the firearms in the game are represented as modern high tech weapons is that those weapons are the ones the developers know, and have code/animations/sound/images of.

I agree something like a musket or rifled musket would be more likely to be produced easily. The only real diffrence between a musket and a modern firearm, when you get down to the nitty gritty, is accuracy and distance.

I have a feeling that many of the people who play Rust that know how to aim and properly play in an FPS would be driven crazy by the accuracy difference between a modern firearm and a musket.

I doubt many skilled players would want to play if they knew that the weapon they were using would miss at least thirty percent of the time.

Current state of the game is feature set testing. It makes perfect sense.

That I must disagree with unless your definition of modern is different to mine. Especially in Afghanistan where they can barely maintain their ancient weapons, they are certainly not producing any new weapons that any NATO country considers modern.

You basically nailed why I want things to stay as they are. Make the guns look more rugged but keep the mechanics the same. A homemade AK-47 would work just as well mechanically as the current M4A4 that is in game. I welcome visual changes but completely disagree with mechanical changes.

[editline]17th December 2013[/editline]

You would be suprised at some of the makeshift weapons even in the USA that are confisacted by police. YouTube “HomeMade guns” and grab a beer.

I personally would like to see modern weapons/armor remain, but with a few small changes. Mainly, military weapons and armor being non-craftable, dropping from air drops only, and the associated ammo being equivalently rare. If you have an m4, 32 rounds of ammo, and full kevlar, you’re a force to be scared of. Players in cloth and leather should have a fighting chance, but choosing to use rare non-craftable military grade ammo should be a choice a player has to make, over if it’s worth using coveted rare ammo on someone who might not be carrying anything of value.

If homemade weapons and ammo were in a different category from military weapons and ammo (craftable versus non-craftable), I could see the game playing out a bit differently in terms of what is understood power-tiers.

Right now, a clan/group with the ability to craft m4, ammo, and full kevlar will steamroll a map without much chance of being shut down, which, with the amount of servers, will likely lead to a server going dark as players move on to another, and the clan getting bored of no players worth raiding and moving on to another as well.

Again, I think military weapons/armor should absolutely remain in the game, but I’d personally like to see them as rare legendary status items, with highly limited capacity to dominate the playing field against new spawns trying to get established.

To get back to the “Why are new players so against firearms?” topic…

I don’t think they are agains the firearms in general, more of the KOS that happens all the time. I don’t think that the firearms mechanics are broken. I really like how accurate the guns are. How the gun play is. I think it is really smooth and that the damage/rate of fire are pretty good, and most importantly fun.

Now what I do think is wrong is how the is is almost always worth killing someone on sight rather than working together. There a number of reasons for this (from the lack of different resources between t1 and tX weapons, to bullets and guns being so easy to manufacture, that is for a different thread). I think that most players articulate those problems as “I don’t like high tech weaponry” when that is not really what they mean.

IMHO I think guns should stay, but the cost of shooting a player on sight should be more. In other words new players loaded up with wood and stones should be not worth the lead and or the degradation of your weapon. I want people to think twice before they shoot at someone. It need some negative affect, because there is none now.

So hi there, been playing for about a week now and my experience with this game have been pretty fantastic, but figured I’d chime in on this because I think of it as a definite issue.

Now, I’m all for gameplay > realism unless you’re going for a sim, but I don’t believe this game is trying to be a sim, just realistic.

Realism Perspective : The biggest issue with creating modern firearms when knowing nothing about how to do so isn’t even the gun itself, its the cased rounds. While crude, I would imagine if I did some research and built some tools, I could probably create a passable firearm with decent accuracy, I’m quite hands-on and actually have made my own wooden longbows and arrows so I do understand how these kinds of things work. The problem is making cased ammunition for a weapon, even if you know the caliber and everything, is next to impossible from what I understand unless you have some VERY specific equipment, and also the knowledge to do so.

If modern firearms are to be kept in the game, I would hope they would be drop-only, as well as the ammunition, with hell, making the ammunition as if not more rare than the guns themselves.

I feel that if we are going to give players the ability to make these weapons, I would like to see more specific types of crafting stations that would be used for them, and the timers for making the items be quite long. Some of which require the player to be at the station while the item is being worked on, and others whos timers run without the player being present, but must be moved to the next stage of crafting when done.

Gameplay Perspective : I highly agree that making all “makeshift” firearms have a terrible CoF would be a bad way of dealing with the fact that the guns are all handmade. Instead there can obviously be other limiters put in place, depending on the type of gun you craft, that will allow the player to pick and choose what type of weapon he would like to make and fire, such as :

Highly accurate = lower refire rate/bullets per clip/lower mobility (think of black-powder muskets, bolt action rifles)

Higher damage = lower refire rate/lower accuracy/lower range/lower mobility (shotguns, handcannons, etc)

High refire rate = lower accuracy/lower range/lower damage/higher mobility (SMGs and PDWs, any type of spray-and-pray-er)

Balancing these factors around the realistic sizes of the weapons, and also around eachother, would give us a variety of weapons to fit different scenarios, instead of giving us a “one gun to rule them all” mentality, which I hope we can shy away from.

Either way just a couple of points I wanted to get across since I do like the direction this game is being taken in, and that most of my player encounters aren’t just realizing I’m dead from some dickbag(s) running around like idiots because the TTK on the guns arent instant.

I probably will be doing a writeup later on some suggestions I’ve been thinking of, because once again I really would like to see this game do great things :slight_smile:

I’m talking about the fact that there’s no way anyone could ever make a modern military grade weapon from scrap metal, and I think we need more guns like the homemade ones that really kind of suck compared to the others, but if it was only homemade guns with much smaller mags and many more flaws to them , the game would be more balanced overall, and yes, changing the name of kevlar would make more sense

Are you really saying it’s as easy to kill someone with a bow or a hatchet as it is to kill someone with an automatic machine pistol?

I would really like to see more homemade weapons in the game. Nothing as “perfect” as the m4.