Hey Maurino, I’ve tried out your Bow Nerf and here is why I don’t like the reasoning for it.
First off you said the bow had some of the highest DPS in the game. But apparently you forgot that DPS is just a number that doesn’t factor in how practical the weapon actually is. For the DPS of the bow to reach it’s maximum capacity, your target would need to stand still while you fired arrows at it’s head. But since that’s never going to happen while you play rust, the DPS that you’re actually going to get is much lower. In a situation where you and your target were fighting each other, you’ll probably miss lots of shots because that is the nature of bow fights. DPS doesn’t account for that. After you get tuned in to your target, or your out maneuver him, you’ll end up hitting enough to kill your enemy. However those won’t all be head shots, which is something that crazy high DPS also doesn’t account for. DPS also doesn’t account for your ability to kill armored players any because you need a lot more than DPS to kill them. Those arrows will bounce off any type of metal armor like it’s nothing, which is something DPS isn’t accounting for either.
Another thing you said was that you didn’t like was how geared people sometimes get killed by a single arrow. What you probably didn’t consider was how many people with bows get mowed down by the same players who every one in a thousand encounters happen to get head shot and killed by a bow. In fact the situations where people with gear do get head shot by a bow often happen because they person with the bow out smarted the guy with gear. But what’s wrong with that? Is it bad to stalk geared players until they are in the perfect position to let an arrow loose into the back of their skull? In fact even if they the person with the bow was just able to out shoot their geared adversary, is there something wrong with that? If little Jimmy is in a rad town with a Thompson and a Chest Plate and he gets killed by some robin hood who pulled off a mean flick shot on Little Jimmy’s unprotected cranium, is that a bad thing? Now even nakeds have walked away from my bow head shots despite having freshly spawned. To me I think that’s a bigger problem than the rare geared player getting killed.
Completely agree with you. The decision to nerf the bow and how much of a nerf its received is up there with the worse I’ve ever seen.
They should of added a better bow which takes a little longer to make but is still easy to get hold of, then the nerf wouldn’t of cut so deep. The crossbow isn’t gonna do the job needed here either unless they make the BP more common.
There’s like no reward for skilled bow users now, only people that spray guns are rewarded because let’s face it guns take no skill to kill in this game. Bolt action with 50% more velocity lol that right there is an instant I win for anyone geared vs nakeds.
It goes without saying I’m taking a short holiday from rust. I love this game but I don’t like the direction it’s been going in these last few months. It’s becoming time spent over skilled play and I have a job which means I can maybe get 3-4 hours a day on rust which is good I know people get less and still play but the point is the jobless will always dominate at the moment.
I 100% agree as well. The bow is meant to be a silent killer because it is very dangerous trying to get into the right position to potentially take out a geared player. If you do manage to get into this position, I feel we should be rewarded with nice bow headshots not nerfed damage.
Was just playing with my group today again with and decided to finally use the revolver in place of the bow at this point. At least with the revolver nakeds will go down to most of the head shots I hit them with. I was using the bolt action too and my god the nakeds don’t stand a chance either. The bolt just kills them in one shot anywhere. I’m really calling for the bow to go back to it’s original state at this point because I miss it as an everyday weapon.
Downplaying the bow doesn’t change the fact that it was by FAR the most used weapon in the game. When people are ignoring bullet weapons in favor of a tool that’s been obsolete since the 1800’s, there’s clearly a balance problem. Now are the bow nerfs too heavy? Maybe. But a complete revert is completely unnecessary.
I would love to craft fire (cloth + fuel) or explosive (cloth+fuel+gunpowder) arrows, that way you can be dangerous with a bow, but it takes more time/ resources.
This also opens a market for fireproof clothing.
Did anyone try the crossbow for geared player hunting?
Maybe you could equip a crossbow and a bow/revolver. First shot goes with the crossbow and you hopefully headshot your target and if you fail you have still the chance to finish it off with the bow or a revolver.
Ok I just wanted to get my two cents in on this particular nerf. Hopefully this post isn’t too long.
Yes maurino said the bow had insane dps, which it did, but you also neglected another major part of why it was nerfed. It had some of the highest dps in the game but was also one of the cheapest and easiest things to craft. It was a starting bp and required no tier two resources to craft, just wood and cloth. Players could obtain this weapon literally within seconds of spawning. This is the main reason why it was nerfed and ill explain why, at least in part.
Now I play with a very large group on dev branch, yes im the big bad guy everyone whines about apparently, and I think this allows me to see certain problems the solo players mainly can’t. My problem with the bow as it was before was that it enabled a set of tactic’s against larger groups that was really anti-fun and only useful to the odd, incredibly vindictive, solo player who couldn’t care less about moving on with the game and just want to annoy our group as often as possible.
What these players would essentially do was build a small base after we raided them, just enough to get 9-10 sleeping bags. Then they would come to our base when we were all logged off or raiding and place sleeping bags in the bushes around the perimeter of our base. From then on out it was a constant event of this one angry player making it incredibly annoying for a large group to gather even wood. He could do this because all he needed to do was spawn and gather wood and some cloth to make a weapon that can literally one shot a fully armored player. Then he would just wait until said players tried to gather and attempt to go for the headshot.
I say this was “anti-fun” because it provided almost no benefit for the solo player doing it. They only occasionally managed to kill one of our guys and if they did they usually just stuck around to be an even larger pain in the butt until they died, rather than try to store the gear. This problem was much more prevalent when other players realized they could do something similar to try and get gear.
Trust me the moment the entire server knows where your base is, like almost always happens with larger groups, you would have come to realize how much the bow actually needed a nerf.
Now we come to how the bow should of been nerfed. They can fix this problem in two ways, either increase the resource cost of the bow (perhaps making it cost fragments as well) or they can reduce its damage. Since the bow is meant to be a starting weapon for new spawns to hunt and defend themselves with they shouldn’t increase the cost of it thus they should decrease the damage.
What enabled this incredibly annoying tactic that allowed a lone player, regardless of skill, to frustrate larger groups was mainly the one shot headshot. I was headshotted with a bow sometime last night and it did about 40 damage with 30% bleeding. This is a bit too low in my opinion and could be raised to about 60 or even 70 damage. However it should never oneshot a fully armored and fully geared player.
Not to mention the main reason our group killed any freshies we found was because of this. Normally we would down people, check their inventory for weapons, then take the weapons and let them up if they were just a fresh spawn. However the fact that that same fresh spawn could run off and have a bow in mere seconds and come back to one shot me made it much safer to just kill them. Hopefully with this change bigger clans can afford to be a bit less kos but we’ll see.
Just my two cents on the matter I had to get that out there lol.
Sounds like a privileged member of society whining about having to see homeless people on the street.
Not seeing a valid point here. Guns still have a distance benefit and can put 3 shots downfield before an arrow is even drawn. It takes an exceptional bowman to kill a fully armed and armored opponent reliably.
Maybe headshots could be nerfed and it’d be alright, but speed/distance nerf is just being dumb.
I said nothing about being afraid of a lone bowman. What i said was that people can make a bow easily and how easy the bow could be made coupled with how high its dps was essentially allowed angry nakeds to troll with it. Just constantly spawn outside your base and make a bow over and over and over again until they get that lucky headshot. Which made the game an incredible pain in the ass for larger groups whose base locations tend to get leaked literally 1 hour into the wipe cycle.
Second, guns are supposed to be a better weapon thats why a bow cost near nothing to make. Its not supposed to be on par with guns. However if you have a guy constantly spawning and sneaking around your base he can easily get a lucky one shot headshot especially if you’re mining resources or not looking.
The bow, as it was before, essentially made it so we had to go mine wood with no less than 3 individuals simply because of how easily it could kill a vulnerable player mining, regardless of gear.
I agree that distance nerf is a bit much but speed and damage nerf seem fine to me, damage could be upped a little as well and it wouldn’t bother me too much at all.
The bottom line is, as maurino stated, you simply cannot justify the single easiest to obtain ranged weapon in the game also being one of its most lethal.
I suggest a hunting bow you can find via blueprint which is actually what the old bow used to be like. (Needs metal frags, looks like something you’d buy nowadays from a sporting goods store). Could even add a sight attachment to it.
Keep the nerfed default bow as it is, but yeah do perhaps tweak the nerf a little. I shot a naked guy through the head, heard the sound and everything, and he walked away from it.
Nobody in rust should have an arrow through their brain and live. Just…no.
But yeah. Two bows. Shitty default, better hunting bow more which handles more like the original.
this is essentially what most larger groups have been asking for. Hunting bow, same as nerfed bow now and also add a slightly rare bp for “high quality” bow. Cost some hqm, like 5-15ish, wood and cloth slow refire rate but same damage as the old bow minus 1 shot headshot on protected area’s (no other weapon in the game does that, not even the bolt i dont think)
My only addition would be the make the new bow look and sound incredibly distinct from the old bow. Just so players can decern whats being fired at them.
Only actual problem with this is it may obsolete the xbow unless the devs drastically increase xbow range or something.
It was by far the most used weapon in the game because it was the most accessible. Not because it was the most effective weapon in the game. You think all those nakeds on Rustopia are just going to walk off the beach with a bolt action? The bow hasn’t been obsolete just because rifles came about either. In fact Special Forces units used bows all the way up to vietnam for unconventional warfare. The reason being is that the bow is effective in the hands of someone who truly knows how to use it. So then if someone in rust knew how to use it, doesn’t it make sense they should be effective with it too?
Those very few special force members who might have used a bow also weren’t making it themselves. You aren’t Green Arrow, or Hawkeye, or Rambo, or even Robin Hood. You’re half a step above Tarzan. The bow nerf finally reflects this.
And like you said yourself, it’s one of the most accessible weapons in the game. The ammo for it literally grows on trees, and with or without a tape crosshair on the screen, anyone can become skilled with it. Infinite amounts of easily obtainable ammo affords them the practice.
I’d say the problem with kharnsjock is his group is bad enough to need 3 people to gather some wood without being owned.
You said it yourself earlier in the thread. The bow was so good you and your group were completely ignoring the revolver in favor of it. That is the giant waving red flag in your argument. The revolver is SUPPOSED to be the higher tech upgrade for the bow. That’s why it takes metal fragments but not HQM. Now it can finally do its job.